Too much Computer, not enough Pilot

[Yeager]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/08/01/brazil.crash.cause.ap/index.html

I found this quote most telling: "Folha speculated that the plane's computer system could have interpreted an incorrect throttle position as evidence the pilot was trying to take off again, automatically disabling the spoilers."

I hope this trend towards boxing in the pilots ability to "screw up" doesn't in and of itself, prevent the pilot from recovering from his own screw ups....appears this may have been the case.

Thoughts?

[Gh0stFT]

this computers are made to help the pilot avoiding "Human errors".
Unfortunately, computer are programed by Humans and so can
keep some errors until visible, mostly at tragic ends.

If this was the problem (still no 100% sure), i hope that this kind of
 problem will be solved for all future flights and not happen again.

Gh0stFT

[Chairboy]

I'd wait before blaming the computer just yet.

[cpxxx]

Originally posted by Yeager
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/08/01/brazil.crash.cause.ap/index.html
I found this quote most telling: "Folha speculated that the plane's computer system could have interpreted an incorrect throttle position as evidence the pilot was trying to take off again, automatically disabling the spoilers."

If one thrust lever was not at idle or reverse the spoilers will not deploy on the Airbus. If the thrust lever is forward you will get thrust. Computer or no computer, even if the thrust lever is connected to the engine by a piece of cable, If the TL is forward you get power. If you retard it you won't. Like a car, foot on the accelerator = power, foot off = no power. The question really is: Why was the TL not at idle? The computer doesn't stop a pilot from retarding the TL. Possibly, there may have been a mechanical reason for the TL not retarding, a foreign object in the slot?

It seems to me that this is idle speculation on the part of the media and some sensationalism on the part of the Brazilians. They haven't exactly handled the recent midair between a Gol airliner and a bizjet with professional aplomb. They immediately blamed the American crew of the bizjet and arrested them.

The final report will be interesting.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by cpxxx
The computer doesn't stop a pilot from retarding the TL. Possibly, there may have been a mechanical reason for the TL not retarding, a foreign object in the slot?
 

Perhaps the throttle mechanism had wore out and the pilots thought the throttle was retarded.

Over here was an accident that involved a twin turboprop plane, which "fell down" just moments before touchdown. It stalled because the reversers were engaged midair, instead of the engines being retarded. It was found out that some sort of gearing in the throttle had been wore out and the throttles slipped past the retard position, which it shouldn't do simply by pulling back on the throttles. Before the pilots could do anything the plane had smashed on the runway.

A little bit different situation, but it's some food for thought.

[john9001]

airbus=fly by computer.

boeing=fly by computer with pilot over-ride.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by john9001
airbus=fly by computer.

boeing=fly by computer with pilot over-ride.

I'd like to see you override every computer controlled system in a Boeing.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Chairboy
I'd wait before blaming the computer just yet.

C'mon, it's not like the computer can fight back!

[Fulmar]

[LePaul]

..or, perhaps, the pilots made a mistake coming in too hot on a notoriously short runway.

But sure, let's blame the aircraft.  Why would anyone dare accept responsibility these days when the status quo is to fault anything else?

Just saying.

[AKIron]

H->I    A->B    L->M

I'm sorry Dave....

Originally posted by Fulmar

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Yeager
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/08/01/brazil.crash.cause.ap/index.html

I found this quote most telling: "Folha speculated that the plane's computer system could have interpreted an incorrect throttle position as evidence the pilot was trying to take off again, automatically disabling the spoilers."

I hope this trend towards boxing in the pilots ability to "screw up" doesn't in and of itself, prevent the pilot from recovering from his own screw ups....appears this may have been the case.

Thoughts?

If spoilers were armed then both throttle levers have to be retarded to idle detent in order for spoilers to deploy after touchdown.  Looks like due to one reverser inoperable, this was done with one throttle only and spoilers did not deploy.

Judging by the transcript, crew not only failed to follow the correct procedure to deploy spoilers but also failed to correct error on time.

Not really a FWB issue. Human error...