Plane Factories

[CAP1]

Originally posted by ROC
Has everything to do with the topic at hand.

Many people want some actual thought behind the conditions in the MA, it won't happen, fly special events

We close factories, and it has an impact not on a Hour, but on a War lasting weeks.

Just sayin

just outta curiousity...i've been wondering......when these guys hit the flak factories, the radar factories, troop training facilities, etc.....does that actually do anything besides pad their scores?


thanks!

<>

john

[OOZ662]

Originally posted by CAP1
just outta curiousity...i've been wondering......when these guys hit the flak factories, the radar factories, troop training facilities, etc.....does that actually do anything besides pad their scores?

In the MA it affects resupply time. Say you hit an ammo bunker. If the ammo factory is full up, in the same zone on the same country, and no players drop supplies, it will stay down for 45 minutes. In the same situation with a factory completely destroyed, the bunker will stay down for two hours.
On the road convoys and trains, some cars are empty and some are full. The more of a field is damaged, the more cars are filled. Then, the more of the factory is destroyed, the less cars are full. A new train/convoy spawns every five minutes. If you destroy all of the full cars, the field's strat will stay down five minutes longer. If you destroy half of the full cars, it'll stay down 2.5 minutes longer. Convoys supply fields. Trains supply other strats and HQs.
Cities supply factories and HQs. Factories supply fields. You kill a factory, you affect the rebuild time for a field's systems. If you destroy a city, factories and HQs take longer to rebuild, again ranging from 45 min to 2 hours (I think). This means that if you take the city down, then take down a factory, you can keep fields disabled for hours upon hours if players do not resupply the fields, factories, or cities. And HQ is seen as a factory in the strat system.
Player resupplies take 15 minutes off of downtime for each load. That means if a factory is full up and you drop one supply, downtime is lowered to 30 minutes. However, if the factory is completely destroyed and you drop a supply on the field, the downtime is reduced to 1 hour, 45 min. In this case, resupplying the factory would be more effective.

[Tiger]

Or maybe just make the plane factory tied to the perked rides ?

[Tilt]

I am with Cit re zones......... they would be better dropped if the smaller map is the map of the future..........

I would also dispence with all these differring types of strat......... we could reduce to just 2 types of strat targets  making stuff much simpler and more intuitive..........

"Cities" and "Industry" I would even question the role of the HQ.

Cities set the supply rate to

Industry
Towns
Barracks (if barracks represent troop availability)

Industries set the supply rate to

Ammo
Fuel
Hangers
Radar

what would be really neat is if Strat  were capturable.........

I dunno about aircraft factories but ENY related attrition if the ratio of healthy Industry to fields fell below a certain % may work.

[whels]

yes we miss the AW plane factory

now i posted 1 time before we needed it back, and suggested a way.

Make a factory complex consisting of  5 aircraft production facilities. each
1 of the 5 buildings represent 1 of the top 5 used planes of the previous tour(can change tour to tour). destroy the particular building and that plane is unavailable for 30 mins(without resupp)(get lots of points to resupp ). make the buildings take alot of # to kill .  you want to be able to fly
you spit la or what ever, then you better defend the complex.

Radar/HQ

Ive said before HQ needs to be made more important again, as it is right now there is no real need to defend it.

a proposed change to base/HQ dar though.  as long as HQ is up, you get
world dar updates no matter where you took off.  If HQ is dead, then you get no more world radar, but you should still get local(base you took off of) radar/dar bar but only for 25 mile range from base.

Base radar. if its up u get local and world updates dot/bar. if it is dead @ the airfield, then you should lose local dot and bar dar for the base dar range.  this way a enemy can create dar gaps in coverage, even if HQ is up, because HQ isnt getting updated info from the base for everyone to see.

Also i dont think we should be able to see dar bars anywhere on the map. dar bars of enemy planes should only become visable say 50 75 miles from front lines of your bases.

CV locations. unknown if CV hasnt beed over flown by enemy. If a enemy plane comes within say 15 miles. the enmy CV position becomes visable on you map. unless the plane stays within range of CV, the CV position marker
vanishes after say 15  mins.


just some game thoughts.

whels

[Shuffler]

Originally posted by Furious
Here are some suggestions.  Please ignore them.

1.  Create a large radius around the HQ in which any bomb landing within this circle is rewarded with X amount of bomber perk points per pound of bombs dropped.  Make this amount some percentage greater than when hitting any other object.

2.  Multiply the above perk points by some small number for every thousand feet of altitude at which the bomb is released up to say 28K feet.

3. Have a pre-designed mission type that is available at any Large field that has slots for X amount of bombers and Y amount of fighters that is set to automatically target the knit/bish/rook HQ.  When this mission launches a one-time audio/text warning is sent to defending team (similar to the "base is under attack" warning).  

4.  Have an additional perk multiplier for successfully defending the mission.  ie, gunners or fighters that protect the bomber stream.

5.  Have and additional perk multiplier for any opposing forces that shoot down a member of the above mission.


...Fun is added, reward is added and no one large group of people get screwed.

Good for the few who worry about perks.... nothing as far as most Ah'ers

[Spikes]

Originally posted by 68ROX


"I CAN'T Fly my UBER-RIDE???

Yeah, you'll see missions going to attack the LA7 and spixteen plants

[Furious]

Originally posted by Shuffler
Good for the few who worry about perks.... nothing as far as most Ah'ers

The point was to facilitate large bomber raids by rewarding the attackers and NOT screwing over a whole team.   How can a huge bunch of large missions to defend and attack not be something for most AH'ers?

[DoNKeY]

Why not just have a factory or two and when it gets destroyed it stays down for 30 minutes  or whatever, and it raises that countries eny by 10 points or whatever.

[715]

Aren't all the strat and realism considerations, including big buff raids with escort etc, going into Combat Tour?  And isn't the MA supposed to stay the mindless slaughter that it is now?  Or did things change and I missed it?

[straffo]

We need a AW factory if you destroy it no former AW pile of it can fly


ps : it's joke

[Flayed1]

My thoughts on the aircraft factory are simple.... just 1 general aircraft factory that is tied into the ENY system..  The farther you can get the factory knocked down the higher the ENY. This could be ajusted so that at 0% it would just exclude the most top notch planes leaving many capable rides still available or it could be ajusted to be more drastic if needed...

 If you wished players to have to work harder add 2 of these factories to a zone like some maps have 2 cities per zone so that each factory is on'y 50% of total so there would need to be much more effort to knock ENY up to it's highest setting.

 Another thing about these types of factories is that you know people would actually up not only to defend them but also to repair them... And this brings me to one of the big problems I have with the current setup...  Most of the newer maps have GV spawns right to the factories and with the current settings for each box of sups the NME can usually have the factorie repaired befor you even land your bombers..  the spawns should be removed from them so at the very least they have to take a slow goon flight to fix it... This wouldn't solv the problem totally because you just get a few guys togeather and you could fix the entire factory in one or 2 flights but it would still take a lil longer than these insta spawns for GV's also I find less people willing to fly a goon to fix much other than the HQ...

This is also the reason that I think HQ has lost alot of it's atractiveness as a target. you plan a long 2 hour flight and drop it then the NME go's oh crap no dar and ups massive goon flights so the HQ is fixed in 10 minuits while any surviving bombers are still trying to make it home... Whats the point???

 Don't even get me started on fuel.... There isn't even a real reason why this usless strat object is left in game... Well other than for those score dweebs.

 Sooo what we end up with is bases with more ACK and more barracs so it's much harder to pork them and factories that you need to invest much time to get to and bomb and if you do are resuped befor you can land....  OH YAY!!

 ANd HTC says nobody uses the current strat system so why mess with it... Well there is at least one reason why not many do.  
 

 When I first started flying AH1 I loved it because there was a good combination of all types of play and things seemed good from my point of view but then came the fuel nerf, the HQ nerf and the bomsight (fix)  and it just continued to the point that the game feels lopsided and to heavy on the fighter side to me.  I just about quit at one point but couldn't make myself do it, so I log on with the itch to up some 17's and do some damage to one of the oposing countries but then think to myself whats the point and end up taking my T-34 out for a spin or some such...  I just wish the game would swing back the other way a bit so it felt like making those long bombing runs would matter...

[straffo]

More seriously a reason why I don't like the factory system.

Usually the country in the bucket got it's strat completely porked I guess it will be the same for the plane factory.

So it will negate the perk system ,add to this the usually very low population of a pounded country it will make impossible for such a country to turn the tide.

[Anyone]

Originally posted by Citabria
my take is zone strat that was designed for big maps breaks the strat of small maps.

I have felt for a long time that it would be better for gameplay and strat effectiveness to have all country bases affected by one set of strat targets and eliminate zones.

as is right now any enemy base captured has the same downtime as a base that has had its complete set of strat targets destroyed to 0%. so in effect strat is literally irrelevant most of the time when the fight is not directly at the front.

this is a primary cause for static gameplay as it favors the defender who porks bases of the attacker as the strat on those bases stays down for I think 2 hours instead of 30 minutes.

IN AH1 before zones we had lots of heavy strat bombing as the strat targets had to be hit to be effective in base capturing or the down time window was too small on acks.

another primary target was HQ. it was vital to defend and if you lost it with strat hit it wasnt coming back for a good while.

it was worth the price paid by attackers to hit it to cripple the enemy and worth the price paid by defenders to defend it.

I think modifying this to disable in fligth dar that can not be resupplied will make this a viable target and not cripple fights and it will add a new dimension of radar controllers in the tower vectoring fighters. and because this is a target that will rebuild in 30 minutes if the city is at 100% and 2 hrs if city is at 0 it will be worth it to defend and worth it to kill it.

there are no real strat targets that have any noticeable effect on the battle. AH2 is completely a tactical war in my opinion.

this is deliberate and for improved gameplay but I think my two suggestions of complete removal of the zone system and and HQ that can not be resupplied that only effects in flight radar would be preferable to disallowing people to fly their favorite planes.

but you have to give the bombers somthing that is actually worth hitting.

I know HT loathed the aircraft factories in AW. he has said so many times.

so that pretty much leaves resurecting the old strat formula which is proven to work on the small maps. the big map strat does not promote strategic buff raids at all. its quite simply a waste of time to hit HQ. milk runners will of course hit the factories to scorepotato but thats about the only real incentive for them is to get a higher rank which has a low apeal to most players as it is irrelevant to all but the player doing the scorewhoring.

sums the issue up quiet well really.


i still strat bomb, but on my lonesom its a bit boring... I hit Cities, then AAA, hoping that keeping the AAA down longer at bases helps knitwits to take bases (something we find so hard sometimes).

Fester... remember those missions when the B24 come out, where you had us all take down 2 cities (baltic terrain) then takeout troop factory, then the final push on HQ and all the supplys for 100miles around it... That was alot of fun, something that hasnt been repeated since really.

Originally posted by Tilt
I am with Cit re zones......... they would be better dropped if the smaller map is the map of the future..........

I would also dispence with all these differring types of strat......... we could reduce to just 2 types of strat targets  making stuff much simpler and more intuitive..........

"Cities" and "Industry" I would even question the role of the HQ.

Cities set the supply rate to

Industry
Towns
Barracks (if barracks represent troop availability)

Industries set the supply rate to

Ammo
Fuel
Hangers
Radar

what would be really neat is if Strat  were capturable.........

I dunno about aircraft factories but ENY related attrition if the ratio of healthy Industry to fields fell below a certain % may work.

I like that idea a lot, not sure about capturable strats, that's OK for large maps (when u captured zone base) but for small there's generally only one set of strats.  Your idea could be applied to a city like in the TOD screenshots, vast areas of city buildings with industry targets within.




Bringing back the reason to defend strat, will cause the need for proper bomb missions with escorts etc.... bringing back two dimensions to the game that seems to be forgotten, will add to game play. I don't want it easy to strategically kill a enemy, hence the need for larger strats (maybe not as large as those screenshots).

Damage to these cities could be for hours, or days depending on balance testing etc... ie if the "new system" creates lots of buff missions that take the city out in a few hours, then decrease the downtime... if it doesn't draw much attention make downtime longer or something.

Giving buffs a real reason to buff other than taking out out gvs with dive bombing lancs would improve game nicely (for the buff'ers and for the buff hunters)


edit:
a BIG FAT NO to fighter factories however.

[Tiger]

Originally posted by 715
Aren't all the strat and realism considerations, including big buff raids with escort etc, going into Combat Tour?  And isn't the MA supposed to stay the mindless slaughter that it is now?  Or did things change and I missed it?

I guess the buff drivers can just wait out the 2 weeks until CT is released.