F4U-1 wing tanks!

[SkyRock]

I fought another good hog pilot the other day in MA.  Now granted I was in F4U-1 and he was in F4U-4.   I am not comparing the two planes, but the way my plane handled for me.  I never engage targets with fuel in my wings in the F4U-1, if I can avoid it.  I am very used to exactly how it handles, and stall fights with no fuel in wings.  I poted this to let you guys interested in the hog know that it makes a big difference in the way the hog-1 handles on the envelope or edge of stall.  I had good enough angles, and was doing a manuver that will allow the enemy to go for a tail shot(enticing the enemy to nose down for the shot, therefore giving me a roll over shot).  The problem was, that the plane shuddered like it was a fully loaded Jug40 and just would not nose up quick enough.  He caught my left elevator and the rest is history.  My conclusion, is that the stall charcateristics of the F4U-1 are greatly hampered by fuel in the wing tanks.  I genearlly take 50% and dt, this time I had taken full fuel as me and a squaddie planned to be there awhile.  I had forgotten to drain the wing tanks on the way over and had 75% in each wing......gaaahhhhhhhhhh!  An F4U-1 is a great stall fighter with wingtanks empty!!


Mark

[Guppy35]

Thinking that applies to most of the birds.  The difference I 'feel' in the 38G with 50 fuel vs 75 is very pronounced in a stall fight.

[Hazard69]

ANY plane will handle better when lighter. I don't know the exact number of gallons each tank could accommodate, but I bet if you have the same amount of fuel on board (gallons  not %) it shouldn't really matter where it is, in a stall fight.

What will be affected is your rolling inertia. Fuel in wing tanks only as compared to main tank only,for e.g., increases your moment of inertia and makes it that much more difficult to start/stop rolls. More pronounced in aircraft with large wingspans, like my 38. This however is still not very significant.

But in general, more fuel = more weight = worse maneuverability = poor low speed handling/stalling


Just an opinion!

[SirLoin]

If i fly a F4u-1/a,i will empty the left tank,drain the right tank to a little less than %50 and switch to main till it runs out...i find the little bit of fuel in the right helps counter the tourque when you are flappin and riding the edge of a stall..thus it's more controllable.

[SgtPappy]

Draining the left tank like the manuals suggest also helps me during landings... when I accidentally turn off combat trim

[oldtard]

Mr SKYROCK it had nothing to do with your wing tanks being empty,
what caused the studdering of your plane WAS THE HUGE bellybutton EGO you fly with

[mtnman]

Off topic a bit- but -

SgtPappy- TURN OFF your Combat Trim when you land the Hog.  It makes life a LOT easier.  Just dial in a little aileron trim and elevator trim.  Done right the plane will practically land itself, apart from the "flare".  I like the elevator just a tad below neutral.  Aileron trim until the plane doesn't want to roll anymore.  The roll tendancy you're fighting when you land is the Combat Trim adjusting to fight the torque which is no longer there.  So in effect, you're fighting the Combat Trim while you land. If you need to throttle up and do a "wave off" it may be helpful to turn the Combat Trim back on.

Careful though, it may open up ideas about other places / times you'd be better off with it turned off.

SR-  You're crazy.  Burning the wing tanks off first doesn't matter!  It's all in your head!  Get it outta there!  I find that a yearly mind blow-out is good.  Get rid of all those excess thougts so you have room for new ones.  It sounds like you may be past due for a good ol' mind clean-out.

MtnMan

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Hazard69
What will be affected is your rolling inertia. Fuel in wing tanks only as compared to main tank only,for e.g., increases your moment of inertia and makes it that much more difficult to start/stop rolls. More pronounced in aircraft with large wingspans, like my 38. This however is still not very significant.

I agree.

Originally posted by SirLoin
If i fly a F4u-1/a,i will empty the left tank,drain the right tank to a little less than %50 and switch to main till it runs out...i find the little bit of fuel in the right helps counter the tourque when you are flappin and riding the edge of a stall..thus it's more controllable.

I've never tried that, but from similar experiences with the CG model, that should work.

Originally posted by oldtard
Mr SKYROCK --snip--

Seemed like a legitimate ego free 'helpful' observation to me.

Originally posted by Skuzzy
You will find I am pretty intolerant of people coming into the "Help and Training" forum and not providing said information.

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by oldtard
Mr SKYROCK it had nothing to do with your wing tanks being empty,
what caused the studdering of your plane WAS THE HUGE bellybutton EGO you fly with

There is big difference between good flying and ego. There is also a big difference between listening to chl 200 banter and believing it is more than banter.

A far as a Hog goes...I find it very helpful to have someone like Skyrock put holes in my plane. It lightens it up considerably and the holes increase drag in the wings so when I stand on a pedal she turns on a dime. I also get to lighten my fuel load rapidly as a result of the holes.

Hope this helps.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by mtnman
Off topic a bit- but -

SgtPappy- TURN OFF your Combat Trim when you land the Hog.  It makes life a LOT easier.  Just dial in a little aileron trim and elevator trim.  Done right the plane will practically land itself, apart from the "flare".  I like the elevator just a tad below neutral.  Aileron trim until the plane doesn't want to roll anymore.  The roll tendancy you're fighting when you land is the Combat Trim adjusting to fight the torque which is no longer there.  So in effect, you're fighting the Combat Trim while you land. If you need to throttle up and do a "wave off" it may be helpful to turn the Combat Trim back on.

Careful though, it may open up ideas about other places / times you'd be better off with it turned off.

SR-  You're crazy.  Burning the wing tanks off first doesn't matter!  It's all in your head!  Get it outta there!  I find that a yearly mind blow-out is good.  Get rid of all those excess thougts so you have room for new ones.  It sounds like you may be past due for a good ol' mind clean-out.

MtnMan

Phil, it makes a huge difference, just as it did in RL(I know you have researched it, I mean it's in the manual).  I always fly the thing with 1/2 tank, and therefore no gas in wings, and it makes a huge difference when you have fuel in them.  Why you would come in here(help and training) and give false information and also act this way, is beyond me.  

Mark

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by oldtard
Mr SKYROCK it had nothing to do with your wing tanks being empty,
what caused the studdering of your plane WAS THE HUGE bellybutton EGO you fly with

I will not get into this with you in this forum.  You need to take your ankle humping ot the general forum!


Mark

[SgtPappy]

MtnMan, thanks for the tips. I already do trim the aircraft's elevator below neutral. Since i switched to a joystick from a mouse, I've had to trim constantly during landings, though the stick is worth it.

it's just sometimes I like to trim everything to neutral or to the F4U-1A manual's suggestions to see if the Corsair really acts like it says in the videos... which I must say, it hits it right on the dot.

[mtnman]

Phil, it makes a huge difference, just as it did in RL(I know you have researched it, I mean it's in the manual). I always fly the thing with 1/2 tank, and therefore no gas in wings, and it makes a huge difference when you have fuel in them. Why you would come in here(help and training) and give false information and also act this way, is beyond me.

Mark

Hehe, I was just pullin' your leg a bit Mark.  It obviously does make a huge difference.

You're right though, I should have restrained myself from doing that in the Help and Training forums.  Sorry.

I should clarify-  Burning the wing tanks off does help considerably with the hogs manuevering.  It obviously helps with the roll (as previously stated...).

I also feel that it helps with some of the stall characteristics too.  I do not have a diagram showing the exact location of the fuel cells in the wings.  If they weren't located in front of the main spar though, the weight of the fuel would be distributed BEHIND the C/G, so burning it may be why the stalls seem gentler when the wings are empty.  Got me, I'm just guessing.

I do stand by the mind clean-out thing though.

MtnMan

[fuzeman]

Originally posted by SgtPappy
Draining the left tank like the manuals suggest also helps me during landings... when I accidentally turn off combat trim

I've found the relatively new 'TrimSet' key command works very well in landing F4U's in general.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by mtnman
Hehe, I was just pullin' your leg a bit Mark.  It obviously does make a huge difference.

You're right though, I should have restrained myself from doing that in the Help and Training forums.  Sorry.

I should clarify-  Burning the wing tanks off does help considerably with the hogs manuevering.  It obviously helps with the roll (as previously stated...).

I also feel that it helps with some of the stall characteristics too.  I do not have a diagram showing the exact location of the fuel cells in the wings.  If they weren't located in front of the main spar though, the weight of the fuel would be distributed BEHIND the C/G, so burning it may be why the stalls seem gentler when the wings are empty.  Got me, I'm just guessing.

I do stand by the mind clean-out thing though.

MtnMan

Do you have some Pliers, I can't seem to get this hook out!:D