Gunner positions in buffs

[Jekyll]

Why oh why do we have different keys for the same gun positions in the B17 and B26?

In the B17, key 4 is for the tailgunner, in the B26, key 4 is for the nosegunner.  In the B17, Key 3 is for the topgunner, but it is different again in the B26.

So there I was, inbound to F15 in my B26.  I normally fly the B17 but thought the extra climb rate and speed of the Marauder might come in handy.

"Oops, Spitfire curving around from my 3 oclock position.  Track him in the top gun until he drops behind me". "Oh damn, what's the key for the tailgunner.... 4?  Nope... in the nose...   errr.....<CRUNCH> <CRUNCH>"

"Oh damn, there goes my wing"  

Is this just some diabolical plan of HTC to force us to take gunners along on missions, rather than man the guns ourselves?

For whatever reason, it is bloody stupid and I should hope that very soon (1.03?) we find consistent keys for gunnery positions in buffs.

------------------
C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'

[wolf37]

hiya:

let me help put this topic to rest,
first, go to your keymapping and change it any way you want it. you do have four stick settings i beleive, give it a try, how hard is that to do.

second, if you can'nt be bothered with changing the key mapping, just remeber what plane you are on and how it is set up, i do, its not that hard to do.


*wolf37 is such a helpfull guy*  


blue skies all

[Jekyll]

Wolf.. I don't believe keymapping will solve the problem.  Remap the keys for the B17 and they are automatically remapped for the B26 as well.  You'll still have exactly the same problem as at present.

Glad to see you can remember which keys are which.  Now imagine AH with 15 or so different buffs.

You want to try remembering this?

Rear Gunner
Key 4 in B17
Key 2 in B26
Key 1 in Lancaster
Key 3 in Ju88
Key 7 in Wellington

See what I mean?  Much better to solve the problem NOW rather than wait until we have another 3 or 4 buffs to sort it out on!

[RangerBob]

I've been reporting this problem for months now, but it doesn't seem to be noticed.

It's really  quite logical to coordinate all the same gunner positions to the same gunner locations on the bomber so a pilot can simply program those positions in his stick such that a button jumping to the tail gunner in a B17 is also jumping to a tail gunner in a B26. It's not that way now, and I'm sure it was just an oversight in programming.

It's important to get this fixed now, before new bombers are introduced.

It would probably take the staff less than 5 min to make these changes, but they need to notice the problem first.

Again, it's very important to get this corrected before any new bombers are introduced.

Ranger Bob

[FDAce]

I think they have been busy, give them more time, It seems like a logical request.

[Pyro]

The thing is, how are we going to be able to do that with different bombers like the Ju 88 or He 111?



------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

Perfect plans, aren't.

[RangerBob]

Pyro,

We may not be explaining this quite right. All we are looking for is to make the same position go to the same type of gunner in each bomber. I think position 4 is the tail gunner in a B17. Assuming it is then make position 4 always a tail gunner in all bombers that have a tail gunner.

I think your question is what do we do with bombers that don't have all these positions. Just leave those positions blank for that bomber. If you have to have the position filled in make it go to the pilot.

If, for example, position 4 always goes to a tail gunner in any bomber with a tail gunner then a pilot can program his stick such that whenever he hits that button he goes to the tail. If there isn't a tail gunner on that plane then it won't go anywhere or it might go back to the pilot.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

Thanks for listening to us.

Ranger Bob

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Pyro:
The thing is, how are we going to be able to do that with different bombers like the Ju 88 or He 111?

So...there will be a He111?  


Always catching details  

[Minotaur]

 

Originally posted by RangerBob:
Pyro,

We may not be explaining this quite right. All we are looking for is to make the same position go to the same type of gunner in each bomber. I think position 4 is the tail gunner in a B17. Assuming it is then make position 4 always a tail gunner in all bombers that have a tail gunner.

I think your question is what do we do with bombers that don't have all these positions. Just leave those positions blank for that bomber. If you have to have the position filled in make it go to the pilot.

If, for example, position 4 always goes to a tail gunner in any bomber with a tail gunner then a pilot can program his stick such that whenever he hits that button he goes to the tail. If there isn't a tail gunner on that plane then it won't go anywhere or it might go back to the pilot.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

Thanks for listening to us.

Ranger Bob

cc

Pyro, this might be a quite a bit easier.  

In the end, after you fumble with the right key, the worst that happens is you get shot down by not defending yourself.  

However, it would be very confenient to have to memorize only one configuration and would greatly help in setting up joystick macros.  

As RangerBob explains, simply make the unused keys for that particular bomber null if that position is not available for that particular aircraft.

This might restrict in the future possible planes with more gunners positions.  The B-17 has the most now with 7, but this seems to be the standard set and could work for most bombers in that catagory.

Thanks!  



------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[ArkanReb]

I don't post much on this board but here goes some input.I assume you guys that have a problem with gunner positions on the bombers fly other planes as well.Which means you need to adapt to the way the planes fly differently.Do it with the buff gunner positions also prior to taking off.Another observation is y'all don't seem to have a problem remembering the keymappings of the gunner positions for the 26 and 17 in here.Put it to use in the game and let them work on the real problems.

[Minotaur]

ArkanReb;

I assume because you don't post much in here that you don't read here alot either.  I am  gauging by the tone of your response.  

IMO this is NOT a problem in any way shape or form.  The current gunner selection system works very well.  Does anyone really describe it as a problem?

This is simply a matter of personal perference.  Of which HTC, in the past, has been highly receptive to making such changes if they made sense.

I will give you credit for reading this thread and perhaps you are correct in a fashion.  It should be located under in the "Gameplay Feedback / Issues" heading and not under "Aces High General Discusion / Whining".  

------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[ArkanReb]

Actually Minotaur I do alot of reading on this forum.I don't even wanna know where you connect number of posts with how much I read the boards.I just find many of the posts irrelevant to me.But since I buff quite a bit I thought I would reply.Didn't mean to come across in a snarly manner.The gunner position mapping is a concern of some-just seems a tad trivial when people can easily adapt.Don't wanna start any mudflinging.Just stating how I felt.Hows this for tone?
                             

[eskimo]

 But we realy don't adapt.  Every Buccaneer who flies buffs (most of us) has been shot down several times after putting themselves in the wrong gun position.  Here is what typically happens:

 If you fly the B-17 mostly then you will train yourself that 4 is the tail gun.  When you fly the B-26, however, and you are tracking a con on your high 6 from the top gun, and he slides into your low 6, then you will probably hit 4.  Which will not put you in the tail, so then you end up hitting other keys at random untill you are in the tail.  Often, by the time you get in, you have been seriously hosed.  

 I have heard virtually everyone of my squad members complain about being shot down in this manner, numerous times.  It's bad enough that buffs have a poor kill to death ratio over fighters.  They do not need this additional disadvantage of not being able to shoot back because they regularly jump to the wrong gun.  

eskimo

[This message has been edited by eskimo (edited 04-10-2000).]

[Jekyll]

I suppose you're right in a way Arkan, people CAN adapt to new key codes for gunnery positions in buffs.

But why stop at buffs?  After all, in RL a pilot would not be able to just jump out of his Spitfire and straight into say, a P38 and fly it successfully.  There was always a transition time.

We could do the same in here, quite easily  
For example, let's have a look at the operation of the 'e' key in fighters.  At the moment its too easy!  it always starts and stops the engine    But what if the 'e' key ....

started/stopped engine in Spitfire 9
raised/lowered landing gear in N1k2
Lowered flaps in P51 Mustang
Zoomed the gunsight in the F4U1D
Activated autoclimb in the F4U1C

etc etc etc

After all, AH fighter pilots could easily adapt, couldn't they?  


------------------
C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'