Aces High III

[Sketch]

What would the point be of it being called: Aces High.....
I see an Ace as someone who shot someone down with guns, not launching AIM-9X or a AIM-120 at them and never even knowing what color the plane was....  Wow, takes talent for that monkey to push the big red button in the plane flying by a computer....

So, that would be..... no

[Platano]

I say no just for the simple fact that godforbid LTARS has access to SAM's

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by Sketch
What would the point be of it being called: Aces High.....
I see an Ace as someone who shot someone down with guns, not launching AIM-9X or a AIM-120 at them and never even knowing what color the plane was....  Wow, takes talent for that monkey to push the big red button in the plane flying by a computer...

Sorry, I agree that jets take no skill to fly and fight in compared to the old propeller ships, but your definition is bunk.  An ace is a pilot who has made five air-to-air kills.

Rino, you greatly underestimate what modern missiles are capable of.  Try Lock On: Modern Air Combat, and you'll see that combat never reaches visual range unless both parties allow it to happen.  Then think that modern missiles are even less prone to missing than the ones in Lock On.  Proof that you don't know what you are talking about are your statements about gees and friendly fire.  There are two rather old, very neat inventions called the G-suit and I.F.F.

[Latrobe]

We do not need any game with AIM-9X or a AIM-120, or Super Hi-Tech maneuvering planes, or comptuter flying planes because or three simple words.......






Old is Gold

[Sketch]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Sorry, I agree that jets take no skill to fly and fight in compared to the old propeller ships, but your definition is bunk.  An ace is a pilot who has made five air-to-air kills.

Rino, you greatly underestimate what modern missiles are capable of.  Try Lock On: Modern Air Combat, and you'll see that combat never reaches visual range unless both parties allow it to happen.  Then think that modern missiles are even less prone to missing than the ones in Lock On.  Proof that you don't know what you are talking about are your statements about gees and friendly fire.  There are two rather old, very neat inventions called the G-suit and I.F.F.

So on both parts yeah.... your bunk on your response.

Five air-to-air kills......  Okay, figure in you are using just AIM-120's and just say you have 5 of them on you (magic plane or something).  A 120 has a speed of around about Mach-4 and early versions have a range of roughly about 30-45 miles and newer versions have a range of roughly about 65 miles.  So anywhere in between there your gonna get a kill.... so between 150-325 miles of distance you have that you can cover without EVER seeing the plane or target that your shooting at......  Yeah, real tough.   Now, figure in that with an AIM-120, there is a proximity sensor in it so that when it feels the target moving away from it, it goes off....  So if it comes close to missing a plane it goes off.  With two different types of warheads, one being a 50lb the other a 40lb one, there is considerable blast damage done.  So, those 5 kill's you land with your missiles from a distance of 325 miles away.... big deal.  Maybe you want the new model of 120's that have a range of over 100 miles.  Rino is correct to a certain extent... they are not fool proof!  Just because you get close does not mean your gonna get a kill.  You might get that dreaded  assist....   Aim-9X's are fire and forget but you can't go yanking and banking and thinking your good to go.  There is alot to firing a missile, let alone dropping a bomb, than just a button and is done by the computers on board and on the ordnance itself.  But with AIM-120's they are roughly around 90% effective.  If it can't handle the shakin'n'baking from the enemy aircraft it will not have enough energy to hit the target.  Yes, missiles rely on E too....
So before you bash "Flying by the seat of your pants" and getting those Ace kills with your guns and 'earning' them, get away from your Lock-On game, because it is a game.... not the real thing.  If you want to know how I know about these I work with them every day in the Air Force.  So, if you want to be considered an Ace with 5 missile kills, fine by me... But let me ask you: "Which came first, the guns on the plane or the air-to-air missles?" & "Which one was used for being called an Ace first?"

[Benny Moore]

Stupid, stupid, stupid!  Stop making incredibly stupid, incredibly wrong assumptions about me.  I find jet combat a crashing bore; if you'll look back at my previous posts, you'll see that I fully agreed with you that it takes far less skill to make a missile kill (or even a gun kill with a radar pipper and rotary-barrel cannon) than with good old fashioned machine guns.  I have far more respect for the heroes who made their kills in old, weak airplanes (World War Two and especially the Great War) than for the kids who today casually lob a few missiles from the safety of their air-conditioned, automated superjets at some under-armed, out-dated junkheap with a pilot trained in the second world.

But the fact is that an ace is a fighter pilot with five air kills, and all of your fancy words cannot change that definition.  All aces are not created equal, of course, but they're still all aces.  Have greater respect for the old ones; they earned greater respect.  But don't try to say that the kids who've made five kills in easy-fly fighter jets are not aces because their airplanes did most of the work.  They're still aces.

Lastly, I will address your concerns about missiles.  The newer generation of missiles are very nearly no-miss.  They are, unlike previous generations, capable of hard, tight turns.  They are faster, can pull more gees, and can climb and accelerate much better than aircraft.  They're also much less prone to being spoofed.  You think you know about missiles, but I advise you to read up on the newer ones.

[Sketch]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Stupid, stupid, stupid!  Stop making incredibly stupid, incredibly wrong assumptions about me.  I find jet combat a crashing bore; if you'll look back at my previous posts, you'll see that I fully agreed with you that it takes far less skill to make a missile kill (or even a gun kill with a radar pipper and rotary-barrel cannon) than with good old fashioned machine guns.  I have far more respect for the heroes who made their kills in old, weak airplanes (World War Two and especially the Great War) than for the kids who today casually lob a few missiles from the safety of their air-conditioned, automated superjets at some under-armed, out-dated junkheap with a pilot trained in the second world.

But the fact is that an ace is a fighter pilot with five air kills, and all of your fancy words cannot change that definition.  All aces are not created equal, of course, but they're still all aces.  Have greater respect for the old ones; they earned greater respect.  But don't try to say that the kids who've made five kills in easy-fly fighter jets are not aces because their airplanes did most of the work.  They're still aces.

Lastly, I will address your concerns about missiles.  The newer generation of missiles are very nearly no-miss.  They are, unlike previous generations, capable of hard, tight turns.  They are faster, can pull more gees, and can climb and accelerate much better than aircraft.  They're also much less prone to being spoofed.  You think you know about missiles, but I advise you to read up on the newer ones.

I never once said anything in my post that you knocked WWII pilots or are there any 'assumptions' you claim I am making of you.  I am not attacking you... and I don't need to do research on missiles or bombs.  If you read my post: That is what I do for a living!!  I deal with munitions all day, everyday!  Like I said in my post: 90% accurate, which calculates into 'near' miss as you said.  I never said an Ace is anything BUT someone who has gotten 5 air to air kills.  If he used guns or missles, yes he is an Aces.... I never said he wasn't.  What I said was that if you want to brag about getting those 5 kills without 'ever' seeing your enemy, well good on you.  But it doesn't take away from where it originated from.  I don't have concerns on the missiles of today because I know pilots and thier training on when to fire a missle and when not too.  But the different between a missile and the aircraft it is after, the missile runs out of propulsion bud and if you can evade it long enough, you might be in that 10% of that 'near miss'.  Contermeasures are used and not getting into that situation might help as well.
I never said "All aces are created equal" because they did it one way or the other and that's that.
As far a knowing about them and reading up on them.... tell you what, how about you go to a class on AIM-9X's or JDAM's, I already have.....

Stop thinking everone is making an attack on you and that 'we' as a community don't know anything about military history/aircraft.  You need to settle down a bit.... breath in an out, not just in.  

[Rino]

Originally posted by WolfSnipe
put modern combat planes is a waste of time no dogfighting needed just locate enemy on radar fire heat seeker mission and move on and in order to do that you would have to make manned ack missles and coujldnt have manned AA cuz it woujld be missles and everything would be crappy war fiar WW2 aircraft and designs are the best..so how bout no AH3 with modern combat

      Heatseekers don't need radar..the seeker head in the missile provides the
guidance.  

      Heatseekers are also not capable of differentiating friendly from enemy heat
sources, nor are they Beyond Visual Range weapons for the most part.

[Rino]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Stupid, stupid, stupid!  Stop making incredibly stupid, incredibly wrong assumptions about me.  I find jet combat a crashing bore; if you'll look back at my previous posts, you'll see that I fully agreed with you that it takes far less skill to make a missile kill (or even a gun kill with a radar pipper and rotary-barrel cannon) than with good old fashioned machine guns.  I have far more respect for the heroes who made their kills in old, weak airplanes (World War Two and especially the Great War) than for the kids who today casually lob a few missiles from the safety of their air-conditioned, automated superjets at some under-armed, out-dated junkheap with a pilot trained in the second world.

But the fact is that an ace is a fighter pilot with five air kills, and all of your fancy words cannot change that definition.  All aces are not created equal, of course, but they're still all aces.  Have greater respect for the old ones; they earned greater respect.  But don't try to say that the kids who've made five kills in easy-fly fighter jets are not aces because their airplanes did most of the work.  They're still aces.

Lastly, I will address your concerns about missiles.  The newer generation of missiles are very nearly no-miss.  They are, unlike previous generations, capable of hard, tight turns.  They are faster, can pull more gees, and can climb and accelerate much better than aircraft.  They're also much less prone to being spoofed.  You think you know about missiles, but I advise you to read up on the newer ones.

     Maybe you don't respect modern fighter pilots, but I sure do.  They have a
much tougher road to actually enter the cockpit these days.  The aircraft they
fly have much higher performance capability than the days of old, but the
human body remains the same.

      They also have to fly many different types of missions against much
higher threat environments than a guns only area.  They also have to be
able to assimilate MUCH more data than their predessors did.

       I take nothing away from the classic fighter pilot, but thinking today's
guys have it easy is just plain ignorant.

[Killah]

Make this game perfect first, then move on

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Stupid, stupid, stupid!  Stop making incredibly stupid, incredibly wrong assumptions about me.  I find jet combat a crashing bore; if you'll look back at my previous posts, you'll see that I fully agreed with you that it takes far less skill to make a missile kill (or even a gun kill with a radar pipper and rotary-barrel cannon) than with good old fashioned machine guns.  I have far more respect for the heroes who made their kills in old, weak airplanes (World War Two and especially the Great War) than for the kids who today casually lob a few missiles from the safety of their air-conditioned, automated superjets at some under-armed, out-dated junkheap with a pilot trained in the second world.

But the fact is that an ace is a fighter pilot with five air kills, and all of your fancy words cannot change that definition.  All aces are not created equal, of course, but they're still all aces.  Have greater respect for the old ones; they earned greater respect.  But don't try to say that the kids who've made five kills in easy-fly fighter jets are not aces because their airplanes did most of the work.  They're still aces.

Lastly, I will address your concerns about missiles.  The newer generation of missiles are very nearly no-miss.  They are, unlike previous generations, capable of hard, tight turns.  They are faster, can pull more gees, and can climb and accelerate much better than aircraft.  They're also much less prone to being spoofed.  You think you know about missiles, but I advise you to read up on the newer ones.

Sketch has been in the USAF a while, and is EOD.   I'd have to say he knows more than yourself.   In fact, I'd put my money on him.  

You are a very angry person, maybe take that chip off of your shoulder?

[Relorian]

If anything i would like to see a World War 1 type Aces High, sticking to historical flight data and structural strength (Yay ripping off a wing cause your going 170) but i also realize that there already were a few games like that out and they didnt do well for online play but it would be fun to Gotha raid something

[Hyentyte]

why not use earlier jets.  f-104 starfighters and such.. old school migs, AC-47s?!        air to air missles werent in use yet. ( i think.. :-/ )

[Roscoroo]

Originally posted by PanzerIV
HTC already made a WW1 flight sim for the Red Baron pizza company, or so I heard, you could probably get it off them!
Edit: Well, according to Wikipedia, and the sources were not listed.

He made Dawn of Aces .

the problem is theres only about 100 of us that like our Spad's n Fokker's .

[Relorian]

If its free to play and download and uses realistic flight data and has the myrad of german fighters, id love to play it