Author Topic: Government funding of the arts: For or against?  (Read 4535 times)

Offline moot

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #135 on: August 19, 2007, 11:02:14 AM »
:lol   Flaming turtles..
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Offline AKIron

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #136 on: August 19, 2007, 11:03:28 AM »
Some can "bend the very walls of reality wth the power of your imagination...."

Now that's art. ;)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7521044027821122670


Quote
Originally posted by moot
It's all Design.  Design restricted to reality, or not.  It's not likely you could learn to duplicate Michaelangelo (his art or himself), but it's not impossible.  Creativity and the linearity of strictly real engineering are both a matter of discipline.

Put JB88 on 5kg of acid and you will see things start to go a little crooked from their intended forms..

About the funding, I'd say it's safe to suppose that funding the means to do art can only turn out for the best?  
If a population willingly buys into junk art rather than everything else above floor level, then what can you do?
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Offline JB88

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #137 on: August 19, 2007, 11:07:23 AM »
i wanna have sex with her...

okay...go ahead and roll.

:rofl
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Offline culero

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #138 on: August 19, 2007, 11:09:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I would argue that the ability to learn anything is an innate talent. I don't mean that everyone can learn anything, but that anyone's ablility to learn at all is innate and appropriately called talent.


Fair enough. Still, it doesn't contradict my point. You could teach anyone who is able to digest formal education to be an engineer, so long as the student is willing to be disciplined. Its all book-learning. Art, OTOH, requires creative talent that cannot be taught. There is technique involved, which of course can be taught, but there's a difference between technique and the ability to create.

My personal for instance is musicianship. For high school wood shop, I wanted a project that nobody else had done. I built a guitar. It was beautiful, and musician friends of mine seemed surprised that it was actually a competent instrument. That was an example of engineering.

Then I decided I should learn to play it. A couple of years of that convinced me that while I might eventually practice enough to be technically able to play well by rote, I would never ever be able to create music. Whatever "it" is just isn't in me.

Writing is another example. I'm literate and could easily be a journalist or an author of technical manuals - but I could never imagine stories the likes of the ones people like Heinlen, Hemingway, even Grisham do.

Creativity isn't a part of my soul, and no amount of teaching will ever make it so. I believe that's true for people in general. Its why I appreciate art for what it is - innate talent.
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Offline Maverick

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #139 on: August 19, 2007, 11:16:17 AM »
Culero,

What category do you place architects in?
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Offline AKIron

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #140 on: August 19, 2007, 11:16:39 AM »
I think it's a matter of degree culero. Creativity is based on imagination and I believe everyone has the ability to imagine. In some, this appears more developed than in others. That it seems to be an innate ability that some have while others don't may be due largely to the fact that our schools don't spend much time teaching people how to develop their imagination.
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Offline JB88

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #141 on: August 19, 2007, 11:20:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot


If a population willingly buys into junk art rather than everything else above floor level, then what can you do?


they already do.  pop culture.  that's what was so damaging about the NEA controversies - 20 years ago - they bought into that bottom level...and below...and what the culture did was nearly vanquish the NEA altogether.  i doubt they will make the same mistake anytime soon...

but lets not put it all on the NEA either.  if anyone was ultimately responsible, it was the artists.  but maplethorp is dead and serano hasnt done anything that anyone has noticed since so we seem to have gotten them out of our systems.
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Offline texasmom

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #142 on: August 19, 2007, 11:26:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Some can "bend the very walls of reality wth the power of your imagination...."
Now that's art. ;)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7521044027821122670

That was disturbing.
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Offline AKIron

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #143 on: August 19, 2007, 11:33:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
That was disturbing.


I liked it too. ;)
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Offline lazs2

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #144 on: August 19, 2007, 11:39:38 AM »
jb... of course I could work with any material that you can.   I have no problem working in any material... maybe not the best but...

It is not the ability to work the materials.. although.. to say that is not an art in itself is pretty arrogant.

You call yourself an artist... I do not.  No big deal.   In the end..  I suppose it depends not on what you call yourself but how others see you... I have been called an artist many times in my life but always correct the people saying so.

I have drawn plans and built houses... to say that art is unrestrained engineering is to simply say that art is lazy engineering.

I see a lot of architecture and landscaping and metal shaping as art.   you have defined nothing except yourself and then... only to call yourself an artist.

We are all artists and all deserve to be treated as such... you are not special any more than anyone else.

Show me a material that you can work that I can not.   Practice for years and I doubt you would ever achieve the skill of the 14 buck an hour certified welder next door.    Practice forever and you won't be able to outshoot me.

The point being...  again.... who defines are and how do you take limited resources and fund this or that aspect of it?   How do you keep that from being unfair?

the frigging government????? you want the frigging government to define art????

You claim that you don't want funding and that you are an artist... maybe that  is the real defenition of art... someone who does it because it is... and would never do it to pander to a grant...

by that criteria... you should be against the funding of "art".   especially by the government.

lazs

Offline Thrawn

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #145 on: August 19, 2007, 11:46:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
National endowment for the arts

Number of Employees in 2006: 120


At 40K a year that's $4,800,000 that isn't going to fund childrens education or pay medical bills.  You are acting like a child that needs a mommy to tell you how to spend your allowance, and so you expect everyone else to need one as well.

Offline culero

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #146 on: August 19, 2007, 11:53:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Culero,

What category do you place architects in?


Both.

Highway engineers, OTOH, are engineers. See the difference?
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Offline culero

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #147 on: August 19, 2007, 11:56:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I think it's a matter of degree culero. Creativity is based on imagination and I believe everyone has the ability to imagine. In some, this appears more developed than in others. That it seems to be an innate ability that some have while others don't may be due largely to the fact that our schools don't spend much time teaching people how to develop their imagination.


Quite true, still you must admit that some folks seem inspired, others don't. Its indeed a matter of degree. There will always be amateurs who dabble at being artists (like me when I wanted to play the axe I built), but how many actually ever create anything that the public wants to admire? Those that can create what many want to enjoy are IMO blessed with something in their soul that cannot be taught.
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Offline JB88

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #148 on: August 19, 2007, 11:58:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
At 40K a year that's $4,800,000 that isn't going to fund childrens education or pay medical bills.  You are acting like a child that needs a mommy to tell you how to spend your allowance, and so you expect everyone else to need one as well.


um.  so you are saying that we should socialize our allowance for the other instead?

you havent read a damn thing that i have posted have you?

neither has lasz.

geez.
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Offline culero

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Government funding of the arts: For or against?
« Reply #149 on: August 19, 2007, 11:58:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
That was disturbing.


I was disturbed enough by the initial image (two nerds) and the time signature (11+ minutes) that I am sure I never saw what you deem disturbing (I logged off after 30 seconds ;))
“Before we're done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell!” - Adm. William F. "Bull" Halsey