Author Topic: How to land a 190 missing a wingtip (Read 888 times)

FBplmmr · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2007, 05:30:10 PM »

f6f-- I belly in.. if your approach is straight you can use a little rudder to keep yourself centered on the tarmac.

i just make sure i am just at or below 100 as i touch

Guppy35 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2007, 12:33:45 AM »

Play with the flaps too. Sometimes it helps, other times it hurts. But sometimes it will lift the short wing a bit and get the nose up

That and learn to live with full rudder left or right and the surviving aileron pushing the good wing down.

Ghosth · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2007, 07:08:39 AM »

Baldeagl, I DARE you to try landing a A6m with a missing wingtip.

Or a Hurricaine, or even a early spitfire, ie spit 1 or 5.

Now try it with a Yak, La7, 190, or pony.

HUGE difference between planes, esp between fast ones and slow ones.
But don't take my word for it. Test it for yourself.

Krusty · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2007, 07:38:11 AM »

The difference lies in the airframe itself, not the speed at which said airframe normally flies. US planes usually land best missing a wingtip because their flaps go down at higher speeds. Not because the speed itself, just because the flaps.

CAP1 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2007, 10:33:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mtnman
Good idea for a post Krusty! I'm surprised by how often I see people just give up and auger in after losing a wingtip. Of course, maybe they lose control, or don't want to rtb damaged, but still...

I find I can rtb safely w/o a wingtip 19 out of 20 tries with my F4U, which I believe is easier than in the 190.

1) i've done this in the spit V, and the spit IX, and a hurri2c it's also VERY easy to do in a 38 with the 2 engines

My standard method is to exit the fight, and fast! I sometimes "fake" loss of control so my opponent will leave me alone. As I exit the fight I trim aileron all the way away from the damaged side, and sometimes need a bit of rudder too. I often (always?) need to hold rudder as well. W/O manual trimming landing is REALLY tough w/o a wingtip.

On approach, I get my gear down, and I only drop a few notches of flaps (2 in the hog). With the flaps down I can re-trim aileron and rudder back closer to normal. I keep a fair amont of throttle on all the way down, and keep my speed higher than normal. I try to set up my turn onto final so I can turn AWAY from the damaged wing.

I normally land gear-down, but if the landing is going bad, and I'm lined up on the runway I sometimes belly slide.

Landing on the CV helps too, if you have a plane with a tailhook. :^)

MtnMan

Krusty- Saber and I will be going through Denver (picking my brother up at the airport in early September. We'll be heading down to Pagosa Springs for muzzleloader elk. If things work out, maybe meet up with you for a brew?

BaldEagl · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2007, 11:46:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ghosth
Baldeagl, I DARE you to try landing a A6m with a missing wingtip.

Or a Hurricaine, or even a early spitfire, ie spit 1 or 5.

Now try it with a Yak, La7, 190, or pony.

HUGE difference between planes, esp between fast ones and slow ones.
But don't take my word for it. Test it for yourself.

I've landed many a Spit V missing wing parts. I flew Spit V's as my primary ride one camp and as reckless as I am sometimes I got a lot of practice

I've also tried it many a time in 190's just because I fly them a lot and I have a lot of trouble with them on final approach. Most often they want to snap roll on me when I slow down and there's nothing I can do to stop it.

I've never even gotten a C.205 to fly after losing wing parts.

On the other hand I've stayed out trying to get kills in Spit XVI's and Yak-9U's missing wing parts (although obviously numbers were in my favor).

Krusty · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2007, 11:51:08 PM »

Keep in mind any examples prior to 2.6 are moot. The code was redone.

Xasthur · « **Reply #22 on:** August 16, 2007, 10:07:28 PM »

Trim makes a big difference with getting 190s down safely.

When you lose the wing, jump on the aileron trim and and a suitable amount of rudder (be gentle).

I also find that landing with wing-tips missing is much easier if you can set up your landing approach from quite a bit higher than usual. Slow right down, get your gear out and drop flaps a couple of K above the field. That way, you can sort yourself out and see how your aircraft will behave and still have room to recover.

Then it's a simple matter of edging down, staying slow enough to keep gear down and stable..... and putting it rubber side down.

The key to this is TRIM TRIM TRIM. 262s.... 190s.... 109s.... trim it and it will fly, regardless of wing-tips missing.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2007, 05:54:20 AM »

bah! you noobs!!11!one

back last year i landed a spitV on a CV with no elevators at all, with wheels down too! blipping the throttle up and down to decend slowly onto the deck. i got to the carrier by contantly rolling over and over to go in a straight and level direction!

yes! i am king! woot!

go batfink!

DamnedRen · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2007, 12:47:16 PM »

I've landed many planes with 1/2 a wingtip. Things to think about:

Immediate damage check...Flaps work? If they do you will prolly get her on the rwy.
Trim. Aileron and rudder. use it. Trim max if you have to.
Rudders. You can stand on it if you must.
Throttle management. Prop torque. Which wing is missing. If you pump throttle you can roll her level. Easy on the throttle. Don't slam it on and off.
Pitch. Experiment with pitch. Nose down and she levels out. Nose up and she wants to roll. Reason torgue and slowing.

At 300 mph she will pretty much fly strait and lvl. Too much rudder and she wants to do a large left or right turn. Too little and she wants to roll over.
Plan a long final, strait in approach. Hit esc and pull up your map. Look at the runway configuration. North/South? Plan a gentle intercept 5-10 miles out so you can establish a very gentle decent while slowing.
If you have no enemy in the area plan to level as soon as you get established on your final approach course.
Let the plane slow while concentrating on keeping her upright. As soon as you can get flaps down start extending them and continue to do so until they are full down. You may have to retrim her cause she'll be much easier to fly when the flaps are out.
Begin a gentle approach to the numbers by easing throttle and maintain approx 150 mph.
Stick movements should be gentle no yanking and banking.
You will be still using some rudder. Let her slip in but maintain runway alignment.
As you clear the numbers ease rudder and let her settle on the runway. As you get closer to the runway
ground effect and full flaps will help you maintain roll control.

If you end up a smoking hole a 1/4 mile off the end of the runway it wasn't for lack of trying. If you land those 6 kills then WOOOOO HOOOOO! WTG!

Hope this helps.

toonces3 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 22, 2007, 05:19:33 PM »

Nice job Krusty.

I'm 0-2 landing the 190A5 mising half a wing.

My buddy tried night before last and did the same thing...Boom!

Both times for me I was unable to get my speed below 200 and I was unable to arrest my descent rate once I got it going down. I noticed you used flaps and gear...interesting. I was afraid to drop gear and was too fast to drop flaps.

when did you cut your engine in that film? I thought it was while you were still over the mountain. I didn't try that either.

mtnman · « **Reply #26 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:20:27 PM »

I'm not possitive on this one, but I believe that if you touch the ground at 150 mph or above you will die for sure. Make sure your slower than that.

I never cut my engine when I land damaged. I think that's a bad idea because if you need a burst of throttle it will take too long to start the engine etc. I just back my throttle off.

If you mean reduce throttle when you say "cut", I do that.

Without dropping flaps I would say your chances of landing missing a wingtip are about 1 in 99000. Fairly poor by my standards. You need to plan WAY ahead. Slow down early, and get a notch or two of flaps out. Then re-trim, and use your throttle as needed to maintain speed.

Good luck!

MtnMan

Krusty · « **Reply #27 on:** August 22, 2007, 11:17:20 PM »

"cut throttle" means to throttle back, "kill throttle" means to stop the engine.

I started cutting back around when I nosed up over the hill. I had to slow down enough to get my flaps out (mtnman is right on that, you need flaps or you can't do it). 190 engine is strong enough to keep you fast even in nose up orientation, so I had to throttle back (this also reduced torque a bit). You want to do flaps before you get low. That way you can recover if you lose control and try again. That's why I stayed about 3k or so when trying to get them out. Once they were down I had a lot more control. I started losing it juuuuuust as I touched down, but luckily my wheels touched dirt at the right moment and I landed instead of crashed. In hindsight I think I might have come in a bit smoother if I could do it over.