september 4, 07

[humble]

Fair even fights in a balanced enviornment with real clear objectives for both sides....yup I do like it.

As for JG54 and the AvA....well you were a big part of the reason the CT died. And I hardly ever see anyone in the AvA...

Now I havent flown the AvA enough to comment accurately on how you or anyone else flys...but in the CT the only time you guys were at 8k was if everyone else was at 2k. Historically you flew with alt, E and numbers or you refused to engage...just that simple.

Has that changed, I dont know....

As for me, you never here me talk smack on 200. I'll respond to someone elses comments but I'll either salute a good fight (win or lose) or keep quite. If FX was "HOing" you then I'de guess is was 4 or 5 on one since in a 100+ fights I dont ever recall him doing that in an even fight (you guys have any experience with that?)...

Now if you can actually beat FX in an even fight then your getting better...but I'll wait to hear the other side of that story.

I think you summed up the real issue quite nicely however with your "we do very well as a squad" statement. It in fact sums up everything wrong with the CT/AvA IMO. It used to be a place you could get away from the "BS" of the MA....people would come to the CT looking for a great one on one or small scale BALANCED fights....then the CT "squads" showed up...

Like I said, small fish....smaller pond

[ergRTC]

Although I do not agree with anything storch said I have to beg to differ with humble.  I do not remember you from my old days in the CT but that does not mean anything.  There were many squads in the CT including my own.  We tended to work together and split the fight.  If numbers were off, as I said above we would jump or do something that allowed a good fight (bomber missions).  I do not know if it was the JG or some other group but I remember often butting heads with a LW squad and trying to plan our squad nights so they would happen at the same time.  

I do remember some 'singles' being upset about the squads doing their thing, but I never remember it being a big issue or ruining anything.  Instead we brought a scenario atmosphere to the place on tuesdays and sundays.  I would love to see that again personally.  


The only issue I have with any of this is the anger.  Niether storch, freeze, or anybody should be complaining about anything.  Complaining about HOs is a sign of having other issues.  Sure it is nice to not HO but you should always expect it.  If you do not have alt you are going to get jumped.  You fly into 4 planes unassisted you are going to get ganged.  

On the 3rd when I did that (zero vs a pile-o-spits) my last words before the fight began on 200 were "I am going to die..."  I didnt say "OH PLEASE DONT GANG ME!".  I knew full well what I was getting into, I drank the saki, put the bandanna around my head and flew into it.

Although I try to get people to NOT get angry and try to behave civilly, I understand that fights can be frustrating and you have to just slam that beer and bite your tongue but hey, we are all adults here.  If you think some of these guys are bad you should have known some of the real ringers we used to get in the CT.

As for the death of the CT that was due to the big shift in the arenas and Dale's want to call the new project Combat Theatre.  There was nothing about the CT itself that caused its demise.

[storch]

Originally posted by humble
Fair even fights in a balanced enviornment with real clear objectives for both sides....yup I do like it.

As for JG54 and the AvA....well you were a big part of the reason the CT died. And I hardly ever see anyone in the AvA...

Now I havent flown the AvA enough to comment accurately on how you or anyone else flys...but in the CT the only time you guys were at 8k was if everyone else was at 2k. Historically you flew with alt, E and numbers or you refused to engage...just that simple.

Has that changed, I dont know....

As for me, you never here me talk smack on 200. I'll respond to someone elses comments but I'll either salute a good fight (win or lose) or keep quite. If FX was "HOing" you then I'de guess is was 4 or 5 on one since in a 100+ fights I dont ever recall him doing that in an even fight (you guys have any experience with that?)...

Now if you can actually beat FX in an even fight then your getting better...but I'll wait to hear the other side of that story.

I think you summed up the real issue quite nicely however with your "we do very well as a squad" statement. It in fact sums up everything wrong with the CT/AvA IMO. It used to be a place you could get away from the "BS" of the MA....people would come to the CT looking for a great one on one or small scale BALANCED fights....then the CT "squads" showed up...

Like I said, small fish....smaller pond

so here you are pontificating from zero knowledge and with prejudice.  how perfectly typical of you.

notice the following from the other posts.

1.  I did not respond to any 200 guff but it does get tiring and at some point I might.

2. since I typed very little on 200 at all I didn't complain about his HO'n.  I upped a zeke and killed him.  they were not 4 v1 fights as there were a total of about ten players on and all in the air.  the fights were balanced.  he chose to HO in a spit repeatedly.

as to his reasons for doing so ask him next time you see him.  I just put a stop to it and that was that.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by dedalos
To tell  you the truth, I am glad you made this post.  It is always OK when I get picked but if I fly like 2K close to a fight people like Simarril get pissed and leave the arena.  ....

Dedalos --

Not sure how I earned enough animosity to get my name in on an AvA problem list, since I don't fly there that often...but since I've been accused of being pissed, I think you've gotten the wrong idea. The other night I logged in to fly a few fights. I upped a couple times, and tried to get a fight going, but each time I got jumped by 3-4 bad guys before I could even get something started. Went to 200 to point out side imbalance, and was told that since that's how everyone else was playing before, that's how it was going to be now. It wasn't any fun, so I left.

No hard feelings, not pissed off. I understand that earlier the tables were turned, and the guys doing the ganging from when I was there had been the seriously getting ganged before.I understand how frustrating that can be, so I can see the desire for revenge. No biggie on my end -- and never thought you were "the problem" at all. I remember once we got into a nice fight (you turnfighting the P-40 ) and several others jumped me, but that was their choice, not yours.  If you were 2k away another time I got killed, then it had nothing to do with you at all, right?


Simple ==  it just wasnt fun for me to get ganged, and since I play to have fun, there wasnt any reason to hang around. So I logged.  End of night, end of story as far as I'm concerned. Sorry it was a bigger deal for you, cause I never thought of you as a problem, that night or otherwise -- and any frustration I had was about the gangers, not you.

So, bud, a sincere sent your way. I look forward to the next time you school me.

[TequilaChaser]

certian squad members like to fly together and fight together, regardless if it is the JG54, 880's, (<--spelling?), some new squad called the KILLERS, etc.......

some members of these same squads also like to fight in a more 1 on 1 type atmosphere if the numbers are kind of low.......

the biggest enjoyment I get is seeing players like KONG1, Tbarone, WildSaue (<--spelling ), fight regardless if it is 1 on 1 your 2 on 1 or 1 on 2.....and see how far they have advanced since the first time I saw them in the CT/AvsA.......am not picking the JG54 players specifically they just the 1st to come to mind.....their are quiet a few others besides some JG54 flyers..

but it is really enjoyablle to be fighting a plane and find the fight to become more than a mere 1 or 2 reverses, then you are the one ending up on the losing end and it is by a player that has put his/her time in and has learned the different aspects of BFM/ACM, has become more of a threat each and everyday.....

things like this through the years is some of what I find enjoyable in this here game........

The JG54 do work good together with wingman tactics,  but over the past few years a lot of them have become quiet good at flying 1 vs 1's as well.......

some players are still under the impression they must have a 5,000 foot alt advantage every single time they come to the fight. This is non dependant on any certian squad........  I usually make a wise crack about "do you really need all that alt" or some such remark...but  then most times let them dive down and overspeed their merge and use it aginst them......

Storch is like your VILLIAN of the AvsA

every "play" has to have a Villian or it would not be as enjoyable ......

still in all some people will always gang up , HO, cherrypick & run, vulch regardless of what arena you are playing in.....all anyone can do is ask them to try and refrain from these acts.......in a friendly way..fussing about it just adds fuel to the fire.......

now people like Oldman, Grits, soda72, Panzzer ( maybe even me & Dedalos & Storch perhaps ).are the older players who should lead by example.... we set the tone and environment for the newer players........what the new players see most and see others get away with is what you are gonna see become the AvsA......so it is up to the PEERS to set what standard of gameplay they wish to  encounter ....if you set no example or set a bad example then you have noone to blame but yourself.......

Good Night all

~SALUTE~

[storch]

last night I logged on late due to work issues here at my shop and I didn't get home until after 2200.

logging at 2300 there were fifteen players on three were JG54.  the squad was split between ackllieds and acksis.  

I had some great fights last night sadly they were between myself and other JG54 members.

on a very positive note 200 banter was mostly pleasant with only minor whines offered by dedalot as he was smacked around considerably and whined sweetly about it.  sadly there is only so much of a whipping anyone can take so he logged off shortly after I logged on.  squad members reported that we now own enough dedalos pelts to carpet the JG54 ready room.  

good job dedalot your whines are like music to my eyes and you are a great soprano.

see you tonight.

[ergRTC]

You see it is the baiting I don't understand.  Why keep pushing storch?  Talking about pelts and all that.

[KONG1]

Why do you assume its a problem. Maybe Ded will read that, get a big grin on his face, think ok you sumbatch and come back with a little smack. Not every one is a tender little girl with no self assurance. Personally, smack doesn't bother me, if its good smack it makes me smile. Compliments OTH make me uncomfortable.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by humble
Fair even fights in a balanced enviornment with real clear objectives for both sides....yup I do like it.

As for JG54 and the AvA....well you were a big part of the reason the CT died. And I hardly ever see anyone in the AvA...
 

And you should see the chaos when these guys come in.  You can be in there with 8 guys having good fights etc.  Storch and crew show up and now you have no clue who is going to HO, who is going to gang, who is going to run in the ack, how many are going to hit you as your gear is going up etc.  But hey, he is of 200 now so the JG54 is not really a problem.  

[dedalos]

Originally posted by storch
squad members reported that we now own enough dedalos pelts to carpet the JG54 ready room.  

good job dedalot your whines are like music to my eyes and you are a great soprano.

see you tonight.

 and i thought you were my friend.  My fillings are hurt now.  Why do you have to be so hurtful?

[storch]

Originally posted by dedalos
 and i thought you were my friend.  My fillings are hurt now.  Why do you have to be so hurtful?

I'm sorry ded, I'll pay for counselling.

[storch]

Originally posted by ergRTC
You see it is the baiting I don't understand.  Why keep pushing storch?  Talking about pelts and all that.

this begs the question of why does what I type to another player bother you?  If you don't want to be at pointy end of my barbs then don't engage me.  

let's call your post strike one shall we?

[ergRTC]

Well, I guess it has to do with the arena.  I don't care what your strategy in the air is just the juvenile attitude.  When you are communicating with others, regardless of the medium, you should not behave like that.  It is just bad manners and reflects poorly on all of us.

[humble]

Originally posted by ergRTC
Although I do not agree with anything storch said I have to beg to differ with humble.  I do not remember you from my old days in the CT but that does not mean anything.  There were many squads in the CT including my own.  We tended to work together and split the fight.  If numbers were off, as I said above we would jump or do something that allowed a good fight (bomber missions).  I do not know if it was the JG or some other group but I remember often butting heads with a LW squad and trying to plan our squad nights so they would happen at the same time.  

I do remember some 'singles' being upset about the squads doing their thing, but I never remember it being a big issue or ruining anything.  Instead we brought a scenario atmosphere to the place on tuesdays and sundays.  I would love to see that again personally.  


The only issue I have with any of this is the anger.  Niether storch, freeze, or anybody should be complaining about anything.  Complaining about HOs is a sign of having other issues.  Sure it is nice to not HO but you should always expect it.  If you do not have alt you are going to get jumped.  You fly into 4 planes unassisted you are going to get ganged.  

On the 3rd when I did that (zero vs a pile-o-spits) my last words before the fight began on 200 were "I am going to die..."  I didnt say "OH PLEASE DONT GANG ME!".  I knew full well what I was getting into, I drank the saki, put the bandanna around my head and flew into it.

Although I try to get people to NOT get angry and try to behave civilly, I understand that fights can be frustrating and you have to just slam that beer and bite your tongue but hey, we are all adults here.  If you think some of these guys are bad you should have known some of the real ringers we used to get in the CT.

As for the death of the CT that was due to the big shift in the arenas and Dale's want to call the new project Combat Theatre.  There was nothing about the CT itself that caused its demise.

The demise of the CT had nothing to due with anything other then the CT itself. And yes the squads were largely to blame. They completely changed the nature of game play. The CY was primarily "lone wolfs" or "winging pairs" of fairly high quality. Basically it was where you went for a good fight...

Once the "squads" formed and viewed the CT as an alternate MA it went downhill. Now again thats my opinion...but I said way back then it was gonna die completely...and it did.

Back when the CT doing well it worked like the old AW FR arena did. The squads were important and gave it framework...but didnt exist on a regular basis. At  that time the preemniant squad was probably the musketeers and you'd never see them togeather...in fact they got more joy out of killing each other then the rest of us. The "squads" only game out as squads when there was more then one up in force or overall numbers supported it. When they came out they went for each other..

I have never once witnessed that in the CT, in fact it was common to see the squads milkrunning on opposite sides of the map. Now from TC's comments (and others) it might be changing. I almost stopped in last night but only had time for 1 hop so I flew an a-20 in the MA...I need some serious jug work so if the AvA has any numbers at all i'll go there....

I know the 71st has tried before but i'll see if Bat Jensk and a few of the boys will run a "squad night" {we actually dont have em} in the AvA again...

[storch]

Originally posted by ergRTC
Well, I guess it has to do with the arena.  I don't care what your strategy in the air is just the juvenile attitude.  When you are communicating with others, regardless of the medium, you should not behave like that.  It is just bad manners and reflects poorly on all of us.

strike two