Deflection shots

[GlassJaw]

I was watching some video of FX1 flying (great videos) but I was noticing in the videos that he doesn't have to lead his targets anywhere near as much as I do in order to score hits.  Is the ammount of lead you have to give dependant at all on your connection or system? Is it caused by long ping times?   Are there any tweaks I can do to my system or connection so I don't have to lead the guys as much on these deflection shots?

FYI, I'm in Florida and running DSL.

[Badair]

What's your convergence set to and what kind of rounds are you firing?  Something like a 20mm or 30mm especially is more lobbed than fired whereas an mg round is much faster (as the speed is where it's destructive power is derived) so they require much less leading.

[Spatula]

Originally posted by GlassJaw
I was watching some video of FX1 flying (great videos) but I was noticing in the videos that he doesn't have to lead his targets anywhere near as much as I do in order to score hits.  

Are you flying the same aircraft? Firing the same ammo, from the same guns? Were you at the same G loadings? Was your target moving at the same speed and same direction??
My point is that deflection shooting is HIGHLY dependent on many many variables - like the ones mentioned above. So its extremely difficult to draw direct comparisons due to the multitudes of variables and permutations of those variables.

Originally posted by GlassJaw
Is the ammount of lead you have to give dependant at all on your connection or system?  

No. Not at all.

Originally posted by GlassJaw
Is it caused by long ping times?    

No. Not at all.

Originally posted by GlassJaw
Are there any tweaks I can do to my system or connection so I don't have to lead the guys as much on these deflection shots?

You *could* tweak your connection, but it wont improve your deflection shooting. I wouldn't bother, you could make your game play worse.

Reason that ping/latency makes no difference, is its your computer which which works out when you fire if you hit your opponent from the information available to it at that instant. It doesn't send data about your bullet stream to the enemies computer and let it work out whether to take damage. Your computer works out if you hit your opponent, your computer informs the victims computer they have taken damage, the amount, and where. This way there is no weapons lag and is a more efficient use of the network.

[Ghosth]

Basicly, you see the bad guy on your front end, you line up, you shoot. If you hit you send a packet to the other guy saying you got hit here with this, do the damage. Some time later (how much later depends on connection) He hears ping ping ping BANG WHAM and his wing falls off.

So the Information thats passed can be delayed, but not the shooting.

[DamnedRen]

It may be good to understand we are talking in milliseconds here.

[GlassJaw]

Yeah, same aircraft (typhoon), same ammo, etc.  I watched probably 20 kills spanning an hour or so.  Maybe its an anomoly of the film that makes it look like he's leading less.   Many of the shots taken, the bullets are fired at about the top of the cowel, for me to make a shot similar to this the guy is way under my nose, like draw a line below the center of the prop to the pilots head vs the top of the cowel to the pilots head.

[Spatula]

Originally posted by GlassJaw
Yeah, same aircraft (typhoon), same ammo, etc.  I watched probably 20 kills spanning an hour or so.  Maybe its an anomoly of the film that makes it look like he's leading less.   Many of the shots taken, the bullets are fired at about the top of the cowel, for me to make a shot similar to this the guy is way under my nose, like draw a line below the center of the prop to the pilots head vs the top of the cowel to the pilots head.

No, the film records exactly what your front end sees, so that shouldnt explain any differences.

I think you are not taking into account G loading at the point of shooting. In a high-G shot, if you relax the Gs before you shoot, you wont need to lead anything as much. The more your G load the more the bullet stream appears to curve away from your sight.

[MWL]

Greetings,

  The pros can correct me at will.  Learning to shoot with deflection for me is a matter of 'muscle memory'.  The more I use the same plane, with the same weapon system, the better my snap shots are.

  If you are new to the cannon, give it time.  If you are a technical flier, ignore the previous comment...

Regards,  

[TequilaChaser]

GlassJaw,
a few things to consider and also practice.........Ren is renowned for being one to advocate quality stick time ( ie.getting in good quality practice time, with a knowledgable Old Vet or a Trainer helps )

now talking in reference to what you view vs what FX1 views when making a deflection shot. the "elite" snapshooters/snipers/deflection shooters have flown many many many flights and have developed something that MWL sort of eluded to, muscle memory...but the muscle in question is actually your Brain......

Instead of watching the icon count down or count up, and  looking or waiting for the opponent to break in any direction to give you a broader target surface to shoot at...thes elite shooter types have disceplined their brains and store "MENTAL IMAGES/PICTURES" of what size the actual plane is in their bore sights...... these little but highly important mental pictures are what triggers their other muscle's memory----> the trigger finger.......

hope I explaining this clearly for you, but what FX1 is seeing , is a mental picture of an opponents plane size in his bore sight/piper.....regardless if it is going in any direction, his mind has evaluated and stored that plane size in to his brain's memory banks.so it becomes second nature when he comes across any plane that offers him this shot.....

the more you fly and the more you shoot, especially shooting deflection shots/snapshots..the more your mind will develope this mental picture and the more accurate you will become......

the other side of this discussion is, although you are looking at a film from FX1,  he has his views set for his preferences, how can you be absolutely sure that the settings you are using in the film viewer are set identically to his? that point right there could be the whole difference in the world...

still though, forget about what the icon counter says, and start developing the mental pictures on what your eyes/mind sees when you make a knock down blow with a deflection shot.......

hope this helps ~S~

[B@tfinkV]

i think spatula nailed the best point, although all the help here is also true.

what FX1 is doing is shooting without pulling G force. he is using a method that my friend snaphook (aka humble) calls 'drive by shooting' in that the shooter is ready and waiting at a specific point that he knows the bogey will cross. all he has to do is hold the nose steady and shoot with the right timing.

Fx1 is good at this, he manouvers only when he has to, he recognises that the enemy is either going to shoot him (IE: time to manouver) or overshoot him (IE: just sit there and wait for the shot.)

so in truth what looks like impossible gunnery skill is in fact an easy shot made so by exceptional flying skills.

[GlassJaw]

I've watched several of my own videos trying duplicate what I'm seeing but still having touble.  I cant really see from the vids what kind of g's the aircraft are under.  Is there a way to see this?  

On a side note, the other thing I noticed is that my timing is actually pretty dam good and I'm often scoring hits on these shots but not getting kills.  ( I didnt realize how many hits I was getting since I can't see them when I'm shooting) With the temp its not as bad but with something with 2x20mm like a spit its much worse.  Its obvious from this that I need to work on my rudder control.  In these deflection shots I'm getting the elevator to do what it needs to but as I increase pressure on the stick at less than a 90 degree bank the nose obviously comes up... my inept rudder control in this situation causes the bullets to rake across the enemy rather than concentrating a burst... so I'm really only getting kills at this after multiple passes or if I happen to put a couple into the cockpit.  Perhaps its time to retire the venerable sidewinder in favor of a HOTAS and rudder peddles.

[B@tfinkV]

i would give my eye teeth to swap my saitek cyborg for a sidewinder!
let me know if you want to sell it and charge me postage to UK if you do go with hotas, thanks

S!

[Lusche]

Originally posted by GlassJaw
I've watched several of my own videos trying duplicate what I'm seeing but still having touble.  I cant really see from the vids what kind of g's the aircraft are under.  Is there a way to see this?  

Yes. Watch the G-meter in cockpit. (Of course that only works for the aircraft the pilot was in who recorded that film)

And there is no nee to retire your sidewinder when you are aquiring pedals or even a Hotas combo. All controllers can be used in any combination.

[Dutchie]

what FX1 is doing is shooting without pulling G force. he is using a method that my friend snaphook (aka humble) calls 'drive by shooting' in that the shooter is ready and waiting at a specific point that he knows the bogey will cross. all he has to do is hold the nose steady and shoot with the right timing.
 

And that is what a Snapshot is. It helps to be 90 rolled relative to enemy flight path, you can see when he's about to cross your aimpoint. More difficult is it when he comes from under your nose or from your high 12.

Shooting a target in a turn and leading the shot is a Leadshot. Much more difficult because of dependencies of G-loading, distance to the target, different ammo trajectories between .50's and 30mm and convergence setting.

If you don't want to make a leadshot, but rather a snapshot at the target under your nose, lead a bit more, ease out of the lead turn (releave G-load) and hit trigger at the time you think he will cross your aim point (in 109k4 often still under your nose). I would only ease out of a lead turn when B&Z, not when in close combat angle fight, you can easily lose advantage when you ease out of the lead turn.

[scottydawg]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i would give my eye teeth to swap my saitek cyborg for a sidewinder!
let me know if you want to sell it and charge me postage to UK if you do go with hotas, thanks

S!

How many teeth you got?

I have a Sidewinder FFB Pro I don't use anymore