Author Topic: Google backs private Moon landing  (Read 789 times)

Offline soda72

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Google backs private Moon landing
« on: September 13, 2007, 02:31:18 PM »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6993373.stm

Quote
Search giant Google is offering a $30m prize pot to private firms
that land a robot rover on the Moon


Quote
Sending a robot rover to the Moon is a formidable task - involving
far greater hurdles than the first X-Prize


It will be interesting to see if anyone will be able to win this competition.  
The first X-prize had some interesting ideas..

Offline Neubob

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2007, 03:13:01 PM »
They're giving a $30m prize for something that will take billions to accomplish?

That's brilliant!

I am not offering a stick of gum for anyone who successfully cures cancer!

It's nice to see private entities backing this sort of thing, but with pockets as deep as google's the least they could do is offer to recoup at least a sizable chunk of the R & D costs for whoever pulls it off.

Offline Gh0stFT

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2007, 03:30:02 PM »
yes they should give the $30m for just throwing a robot rover into the orbit,
that would be fun enough for private persons. I would immediately start
searching ebay for 'missile' , 'V2' or so ;)
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Offline FiLtH

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2007, 05:36:40 PM »
Why not offer 30 mil to who can make the best fuel alternative or cure something? What a waste of money. Atleast put a monkey in the friggin thing to add some risk!

~AoM~

Offline FBplmmr

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2007, 08:06:10 PM »
But if the monkey were to fart whilst on the moon the moon would get all hot and all the cheese would melt:confused:



Maybe we could send Rosie O'Donnell ..just picture her all sweaty and covered in melted cheese!!!  (I know this won't be the first time for some of you);)

















I should stick with beer:t

Offline Flint

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2007, 08:06:27 PM »
Think of it this way - anyone who can put a rover on the moon for less than 30mil is into all profit baby.

Similar thing was in the Scientific American a couple of years ago - they offered 25 cents for the guy that discovers the cure to cancer.

Offline Leslie

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2007, 11:00:35 PM »
I don't think any rocket smaller than a Saturn I can make it to the Moon.  Going to the Moon (and returning) is for all practical purposes impossible, unless you have a Werner von Braun working on the project.  I don't think people understand what a great achievement it was, maybe never to be duplicated.  The old saying, "we did it once, we can do it again" definitely does not apply to Moon rockets.

Of course you have to have a hell of a lot of money, but without the vision and dedication of von Braun it never would have happened.  This was von Braun's dream.  Even with adequate money, it takes more than that...it takes desire to do something like go to the Moon.

You know, to pull off a feat of that magnitude, every single mathematical calculation was checked and re-checked by computers thousands of times.  And then those figures were checked manually thousands of times using slide rules to the smallest detail.  There is no room for error, at least with a man-rated rocket, but certainly you wouldn't want your private built rocket to fail.  How many engine tests would have to be made?  And that's only for the propulsion solutions.  

Every time a rocket behaves as designed it's more miracle than not.  A rocket is basically a controlled bomb that vents instead of exploding.  These prizes are good indicators of just how much the general public is not aware of how difficult a Moon launch is, or really any launch for that matter.  If a trip to the Moon is repeated, it certainly won't be inspired by money.  It would have to be a labor of love, akin to Werner von Braun's dream.

Interesting tidbit here:  For a trip to Mars, a ground launched rocket would have to be about the size of the Empire State Building.



Les

Offline EagleDNY

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2007, 11:04:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
I don't think any rocket smaller than a Saturn I can make it to the Moon.  Going to the Moon (and returning) is for all practical purposes impossible, unless you have a Werner von Braun working on the project.  I don't think people understand what a great achievement it was, maybe never to be duplicated.  The old saying, "we did it once, we can do it again" definitely does not apply to Moon rockets.

Of course you have to have a hell of a lot of money, but without the vision and dedication of von Braun it never would have happened.  This was von Braun's dream.  Even with adequate money, it takes more than that...it takes desire to do something like go to the Moon.

You know, to pull off a feat of that magnitude, every single mathematical calculation was checked and re-checked by computers thousands of times.  And then those figures were checked manually thousands of times using slide rules to the smallest detail.  There is no room for error, at least with a man-rated rocket, but certainly you wouldn't want your private built rocket to fail.  How many engine tests would have to be made?  And that's only for the propulsion solutions.  

Every time a rocket behaves as designed it's more miracle than not.  A rocket is basically a controlled bomb that vents instead of exploding.  These prizes are good indicators of just how much the general public is not aware of how difficult a Moon launch is, or really any launch for that matter.  If a trip to the Moon is repeated, it certainly won't be inspired by money.  It would have to be a labor of love, akin to Werner von Braun's dream.

Interesting tidbit here:  For a trip to Mars, a ground launched rocket would have to be about the size of the Empire State Building.



Les


NASA has used the Delta series to launch probes out of earth orbit, so you don't need all that much rocket to get a small mass to the moon.  The old ranger probes (early NASA moon probes - crashed into the moon taking pictures all the way) and surveyors (soft landed probe) didn't go up on Saturns.

Offline Leslie

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2007, 11:36:17 PM »
Ah yes, of course you're right Eagle.  I was fixated on a manned rocket, which would have to return, as well as have life support systems on board.

I suppose then it could be done, for a private concern to place a rover on the Moon.  No one would be riding it.  Not a bad idea.  And I'm confident someone will do it before long.  I'm wondering now just how much would have to be built from scratch, and how much existing parts could be used.  Can you buy the parts from NASA?  Rocket engines, bodies and the like?  If so, would this be acceptable far as the prize goes?

I'm supposing where most of the money would be needed, would be for replacing failed components.  You would have to get to a point where the rocket worked without the payload first, and then hope it worked again on a second rocket with the payload.




Les

Offline FiLtH

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2007, 12:25:18 AM »
Well nobodys gonna do it, but Google will be the talk of the town for awhile over it. Mission accomplished.

~AoM~

Offline JB88

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2007, 01:42:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
Well nobodys gonna do it, but Google will be the talk of the town for awhile over it. Mission accomplished.


they got to outer space twice for a ten million dollar prize.

this isnt even a manned mission.

i don't see why it can't be done...especially after trimming out all of the bureaucratic fat.
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Offline AquaShrimp

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2007, 06:50:17 AM »
A private jet can cost more than 30 million.  This is nowhere near enough to finance a moon landing.

Offline soda72

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2007, 07:34:18 AM »
The prize money offered is a way to recover some of the development cost, it's really not intended to make someone rich.  Spaceshipone that won the first X prize of 10 Million cost them 20 Million to develop.  

If you are able to come up with a cost effetive way to send a rover to another planet you may just find yourself with a very lucrative buisness that would make the 30mil look like chump change.

Offline moot

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2007, 07:52:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
Why not offer 30 mil to who can make the best fuel alternative or cure something? What a waste of money. Atleast put a monkey in the friggin thing to add some risk!

XPrize has already had a contest in genomics and fuel efficiency design for cars.
Although you won't be making much in return (unless you somehow publicize it enough or think outside the box), you can hitch a ride on a rocket with leftover payload volume for cheap enough given the 30mill prize... and IIRC there's a number of incentives from SpaceX and others to grease the cogs some more.
All you need to do is drive 500m with a video downstream.  You don't need that much for those criteria... I think I remember some proven rocket that has launched payloads on its leftover 180kg racks.

About the space is a waste of time p.o.v.... NASA gets about 1% of the budget.  How much do the children & cie. charities like welfare get?  
Like it or not, man needs to get off this rock, and the sooner the better.  Kids getting a hugely increased exposure to space and science such as youtube'd moon rovers with (e.g.) the public getting some time at the controls would be a lot more effective at producing minds disposed for finding fuel alternatives or cures than today's all pervasive junk culture and apathy.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2007, 07:54:56 AM by moot »
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Offline indy007

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Google backs private Moon landing
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2007, 08:14:13 AM »
First rover on mars cost $300-$450 million. Second one cost $200 million. That includes travel. While I don't see a rover getting to the moon for under $30 million, it's appearently easily possible.