Author Topic: Downtimes  (Read 1523 times)

Offline ergRTC

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Downtimes
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2007, 09:01:23 PM »
Very interesting.

I would suggest starting early war as the plane issue is a huge one.  Nobody cares how many 109es and stukas you up.

Hardening bases is hard to get a grasp on.  Are you saying that multiple runs turn the base into jelly and make it impossible to repair?  Do you mean that factory attacks limit airplanes?  What happens to the map when England can no longer produce fighters?  Does anyone play?  

I used to love it in AW3 (2?) when somebody would smoke the spit factory.  But if the axis only have the 109 and we blow the 'emil' factory what happens then?

I think you should definitely try though.  That is what the CT/AvA is about.  You KNOW you will get feedback on how it is working out.  Maybe this will draw numbers but I would not bet on it.  I think the historical buffs are just fewer than the MA crowd.

It is a really different kind of game play that many do not find interesting.  Sadly there are not many of us that would stop our subscribription if the AvA did not exist.  

When I egg in the AvA these days it is just practice for when I get a chance to fly a scenario.  Personally I do not think the milkrunners will show up if there is no score and nobody is on.  What do they have to gain?  They just wasted a ton of time doing nothing.  If you think they are doing it to ruin your night I would have to believe you are being paranoid.  Nobody cares if half the map is toast in the AvA.

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2007, 09:56:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
 Nobody cares if half the map is toast in the AvA.


unless the 1/2 that is toast is totally on 1 side, and the un plastered side has no side to fight against........

some things sound good, but Forks 1st opening post of suggestions would shut the AvsA down in less than a week, and would call for the arena to have to be reset.....

like ROC's idea of if you die you can not just instantly reup......only downfall to this is as someone mentioned "ack huggers" and the runaway janes........

you would be back to the handful of regulars who actually don't give a care if they lose or win as long as the fight is good.......but put up 8 players ( think as it is a squad wanting to fly historically) against 3 on the other side, the eight dogpile the 3 and then cap their field, then pork their field ( think playing for strat ), they push these guys back, the 3 wait until they can take off again while the 8 man historical squad pushes deeper into territory, when they can finally take off again, the eight has the upper hand again, knock the 3 down, and start over.......  still needs work on the "thinking it out process" still before you are any where near ready to test anything....

offering different options is always a good thing, but you will always have spoilers in life no matter what you do...this is where the AvsA staff would need to step up the moderating to around the clock, almost like in the AW days........

just a worthless 2 cents..........  good luck though, hope you find something that works yet does not take away from the regulars who use the arena for the historical matchups of planes ( or near as possible to historical )......
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Offline Mister Fork

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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2007, 01:44:57 AM »
The issue is that the current style of gameplay of dogfighting only is not sustainable.   Sorry, but the numbers are just not there.

We wish to offer a different arena where squadrons and strategic thinkers get a chance to fight a real enemy, with real targets, and historical match-ups.  To support these initiatives, we need to change our rocks into flower beds - think different... :)
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Offline KONG1

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« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2007, 08:17:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mister Fork
The issue is that the current style of gameplay of dogfighting only is not sustainable.   Sorry, but the numbers are just not there.


Now there's a fascinating statement. Definitive yet enigmatic. By "not sustainable" are you saying "not financially sustainable". Should I read this as - HTC has determined that the numbers are too low to justify the resources required to offer the arena.
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Offline ergRTC

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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2007, 09:31:50 AM »
I would bet that is the case.  Too bad since I will probably cancel my account when the AvA is closed.  Just not into fighting F4Fs with F4Fs or getting jumped by a p47 when I am flying a p47.

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2007, 11:39:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by KONG1
Should I read this as - HTC has determined that the numbers are too low to justify the resources required to offer the arena.


News to me.

Offline KONG1

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« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2007, 12:12:36 PM »
Yeah doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. Just trying to figure out in what way it is not sustainable. Mr Fork will show up eventually and fill us in.
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Offline toonces3

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« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2007, 12:56:13 PM »
I like the ideas, but I can't see how this will have any effect but drive off the few people that frequent AvA at all right now.

First, one would think that by removing scoring, the folks that would milkrun at 2am wouldn't bother.  What would they have to gain other than ruining everyone else's good time?  But that's the rub...some folks are just like that.

Second, now you're gonna have fields with a 20 minute flight between fights.  That's gonna get old REAL QUICK.

Third, if you have a delayed re-spawn after getting killed, how many folks are gonna hang around waiting until they can re-up?  You get shot down.  You can sit for 5 minutes waiting for your pilot to get a new life, or you can just log and go to the MA.  My time is limited.  I can't spend all night waiting to find a fight or for my pilot to get a new life (or at least not during weeknights).

Perhaps limit the number of fields that could be flattened.  Once the distance between opposing fields reaches a certain distance, a close base respawns.   Something like this would assure that there would always be at least one place with short transit times, and could serve to limit the damage milkrunning could cause.

Unless you have persistence in AvA like the MA, it's gonna be hard to keep folks from milkrunning in there like EW.
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Offline detch01

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Re: Downtimes
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2007, 04:26:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mister Fork
How does this tie into downtimes?
- all map objects on a map are set so that once they're down, their down.
- airfield AAA take 12-24 hours to repair and rearm
- airfield hangars take a week to replace (as would be in real life)
- airfield objects like fuel, barracks, and ammo dumps are the same
- turn back on map strategy (it has always been turned off)
- CV's that are destroyed are gone for a very very wong time.

For example, if you attack two airfields that housed P-51's for the map, and by destroying those fighter hangars, no more P-51's for several days.  Same for bombers and alike.  But each side would be given that kind of 'covert' information.

How could this impact gameplay?

All that I've not included in the quote above I agree with (except setup life, but I'll get to that).
I have trouble with what's quoted though. It seems to me that there's too much emphasis on the terrain objects and penalizing players. You want to encourage game play, not restrict it.
Were it me doing this I'd:
-set downtimes to a short period - 30-45 minutes would work well enough, and I'd make that value universal so that town and strat group objects have the same down-time.
-Increase object hardness by 3 (9k worth of bombs to kill a hangar - hardness for everything else times-3 also).
-Increase troop requirements for capture to 1.5 C-47's worth to make taking territory praciticable by organized missions but only if they've can bring enough power to the fight to get the job done.
-Set the AAA to about 2/3's MA strength.

Setup Times of 2 weeks: A month is at best a minimum for an experiment - but even a month will show you precious little but it'll at least be a bit of a hint.  2 weeks will show you nothing you don't already see on a regular basis. 2 week setups have been tried and to be honest aren't long enough to bring in squadrons or keep them interested. Were it me I'd run the first setup for 3 months, see how that plays out and adjust if necessary. Just pick a good, historically based setup that will appeal to more than just those interested in a single battle or small side-show to the main event.

The death periods are kind of interesting and will add a distinct flavour to the AvA as long as they are kept short - a couple of minutes at most. I definitely think they're worth a try.

I understand you want to change the overall nature of the arena population to one that includes those who like the strategic and tactical side of the game that goes beyond individual performance in a fight. One thing you should want to avoid in achieving that is to build an arena that excludes individual game play.  The players interested in that (for the most part the current population) should be able to get their thrills in the AvA also.
Personally I like the long-term aspects of game-play that the AvA has the potential to offer, but I also like the furballs and 1v1 fights. I'd like to have both in the AvA.

my 0.02

Cheers,
asw
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 04:29:35 PM by detch01 »
asw
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Offline ergRTC

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Downtimes
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2007, 04:31:09 PM »
30-45 minute downtime doesnt work since by the time you get back with another load of eggs the stuff is already back up again.  

Make bombing difficult and make downtimes long enough for it to matter (if you do it at all).



i just don't see how this will attract people though.  I could really care less about physical changes on the map.  I prefer the organized mission stuff.  Not like pilots in the war ever thought "three more hangars and we can move on to the next base!"  

I guess CT will be what I would look forward to more than a strat arena.

Offline KONG1

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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2007, 09:24:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by KONG1
Mr Fork will show up eventually and fill us in.
Maybe not.
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Offline detch01

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« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2007, 10:13:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
30-45 minute downtime doesnt work since by the time you get back with another load of eggs the stuff is already back up again.  

Which is exactly the point.
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Offline Tiger

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« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2007, 01:57:09 PM »
Looks to me they are trying to add an element of 'realism' that people complain is lacking in the MA.

You bomb a hangar in the MA, it's back in 15 mins.  You only have to fly 3 mins to a base.  Dive bombing Lancs.

Looks like they are trying to turn the AvA into a prolonged 24/7 Special Event.  Longer downtimes, longer flight times, and I love the Death Penalty idea, would cut the bomb and bailers out and provide an incentive to land your plane.


I like the idea...  a more 'realistic' form of combat in AvA and leave the quick action free-for-all in the MA.

Offline Mister Fork

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« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2007, 07:30:53 PM »
Kong - just read my first posting - this is all just an opinion.  I don't think the current dog fighting experten is zee anzer to flyink in ze A vee eh arenza.

I dontz noz vat to do abotz exapninz arenaz.  Ja, jusz keepz doink vat ve tink is vite.  (cough)

Donno whats getting into me. Speaking Germlish - must be the contagious thinking out of the box thinking and strategic gameplay.  :D

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Offline humble

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« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2007, 07:51:12 PM »
I'm a bit curious.

Squads and "strategy" are what killed the CT in the 1st place. The concept that somehow "enhancing" this will save it is beyond me.

If you froze the base structure so nothing at all was capturable or damagable, upped the ack to maximum leathality and eliminated squads (officially at least) you'd be 1/2 way there. Add some way to level the sides and you've got a start....

Your doing nothing that the MA doesnt already have. Go back to the "pure" air war many of us cut are teeth on and you'll get numbers.

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