Author Topic: Spit 8 Tactics for Spit 16's (Read 1982 times)

humble · « **Reply #15 on:** September 25, 2007, 08:55:22 AM »

Pilot skill is always the dominant factor in a fight. No question that over time a superior plane will win...but in every fight there is a segment in time where the better pilot can win the fight (not that you always will)...

Here are a couple of a-20 vs spitty clips from the last few days....both are 1 on 2.

clip 1

This one I'm inbound and the 2 spits are outbound. The 2nd spit breaks off midfight to go after some buffs leaving the 1st one hanging...

clip 2

Here I'm over enemy base looking to pick a bit...doesnt work out that way and I end up bugging out after the spitty forces me of the perch. My goal here is to get away from the enemy base. Bad enough your gonna fight 1 on 3...you dont want to then get picked by a guy just upping. I'm actually heading away from a squaadie but he diverts to me and I reverse back...

Doesnt matter in the end, I tag one (or both spits) get a cockpit shot on one and manuever kill on the 2nd and a 110 ruins my day before my cavalry can save my bacon....fun fight though

Guppy35 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2007, 03:02:12 PM »

Generally the Spit 16 drivers are going faster then the Spit VIII drivers which means you can get them to overshoot and then try and pull back into a turning fight. And as others have mentioned, if you can get them into a slow turning fight, the larger wing area of the VIII will keep you from stalling out first.

Bronk · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2007, 03:19:04 PM »

Quick addition to this thread.
Remember a spit VIII at 50% fuel weighs a bit more than a XVI at 50%.(at any fuel % actually)
Take that under consideration before launching your sortie.

Bronk

SgtPappy · « **Reply #18 on:** September 25, 2007, 03:43:04 PM »

Though for some reason the Spit XVI weighs less than the Spit IX at same settings, though the former has the 'E' type wings that I've told are heavier...

I personally find the IX the most fun Spitfire as it's like the V, but faster... feeding the need for speed.

Latrobe · « **Reply #19 on:** September 25, 2007, 04:21:34 PM »

IMO The spit 16 is the worst spitfire of the 6 we have. Most fights in AH end up being low and slow and the 16 isn't good at all in that catagory. The 1, 5, 8, and 9 are the best in these fights because of their gorgeously large wings, and the 14 and 16 are the "speed demons" of the spit family. In case you didn't know, the earlier spits are actually the better ones, and the 14 is actually better than the 16 too.

humble · « **Reply #20 on:** September 25, 2007, 06:31:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Latrobe
IMO The spit 16 is the worst spitfire of the 6 we have. Most fights in AH end up being low and slow and the 16 isn't good at all in that catagory. The 1, 5, 8, and 9 are the best in these fights because of their gorgeously large wings, and the 14 and 16 are the "speed demons" of the spit family. In case you didn't know, the earlier spits are actually the better ones, and the 14 is actually better than the 16 too.

If a good spitVIII driver meets a good XVI driver the VIII dies...

The VIII is much more docile and "easier" to fly...but the 16 actually is slightly better in all things spitish..the 16 actually can out turn, out roll, out climb and out accelerate the 8...admittedly all my a slender margin. It's just a bit harder to put and keep on the edge....

Latrobe · « **Reply #21 on:** September 25, 2007, 07:46:06 PM »

Yes but its just so rare to see a good spit 16 pilot nowdays. Just soo many spit 16's in the skies but, out of the 10-20 you may see in a furball, only 2 or 3 may know how to fly it right.

humble · « **Reply #22 on:** September 25, 2007, 10:01:09 PM »

That holds true in most low eny planes...realistically only about 15% of the player base is well versed in ACM...another 15% have good SA but lesser ACM skills...so out of roughly 5000 subscribers you've got 750 who can fight and 750 who can think. The 300 or so where those skills overlap significantly are the guys who you need to watch out for....

Latrobe · « **Reply #23 on:** September 25, 2007, 10:03:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by humble
That holds true in most low eny planes...realistically only about 15% of the player base is well versed in ACM...another 15% have good SA but lesser ACM skills...so out of roughly 5000 subscribers you've got 750 who can fight and 750 who can think. The 300 or so where those skills overlap significantly are the guys who you need to watch out for....

MajWoody · « **Reply #24 on:** September 25, 2007, 11:38:10 PM »

The XVI feels MUCH more stable to me than an VIII
I don't fly the VIII much but when I do, I stall way too often.... and die

evenhaim · « **Reply #25 on:** September 26, 2007, 12:47:01 AM »

this is my threat list
most threating spit to least threatening

spit8
spit16
spit9
spit5
spit14
spit1

the 14 is just about the most un-spitish spitfire its more of a 190 then a spit and is easily outflown.
i have come across many good spit8 sticks more so then the 16

but i myself am more of a threat in the 16 go figure

Regards,
Freezman

Latrobe · « **Reply #26 on:** September 26, 2007, 12:49:57 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by evenhaim
this is my threat list
most threating spit to least threatening

spit8
spit16
spit9
spit5
spit14
spit1

the 14 is just about the most un-spitish spitfire its more of a 190 then a spit and is easily outflown.
i have come across many good spit8 sticks more so then the 16

but i myself am more of a threat in the 16 go figure

Regards,
Freezman

Are your SURE you wanna put the spit 1 there??

Bronk · « **Reply #27 on:** September 26, 2007, 05:05:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by evenhaim
this is my threat list
most threating spit to least threatening

spit8
spit16
spit9
spit5
spit14
spit1

the 14 is just about the most un-spitish spitfire its more of a 190 then a spit and is easily outflown.
i have come across many good spit8 sticks more so then the 16

but i myself am more of a threat in the 16 go figure

Regards,
Freezman

Get that Mk XIV up to 22k-25k and see if it doesn't jump to the top of that list. You just never see them much at there designed alts.

Bronk

Lumbergh · « **Reply #28 on:** September 26, 2007, 07:37:26 AM »

Im only a 1month newb but ive found the XIII the best/easiest to get results in dogfighting. I'll grab the XVI if I have to scramble for inb buffs or to hassle high 109s and P51s - ie just for its climb rate and the .50s.

sound about right?

humble · « **Reply #29 on:** September 26, 2007, 08:30:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lumbergh
Im only a 1month newb but ive found the XIII the best/easiest to get results in dogfighting. I'll grab the XVI if I have to scramble for inb buffs or to hassle high 109s and P51s - ie just for its climb rate and the .50s.

sound about right?

Welcome to a lifetime of misery:)....

There are so many variables involved in ACM it can be overwhelming. Actual turn rate is not particularly important (within certain parameters) as you get better. At the extreme it becomes almost a non factor. Thats why yucca, bluekitty, skyrock, batfink etc can be so deadly "turning" planes like the P-47.

Roll rate and rudder/elevator authority combined with a "3D" view of dogfighting and good E management just overwhelm the "2D" turn capabilities. Thats why the 16 will beat the 8 if flown to its full potential.

You can get an idea of 3D geometry in either of the clips I posted. If you look at the on the deck clip the reverse and shot set ups are all basically yoyo's which you can view as "flying the X" (vertical obliques). You can see in my views both spits "tracking" a flat turn"....basically flying the "T" (horizontal or vertical). you'll see that by geing in this "out of plane" oblique I can use my control surface authority to reorient my "lift vector" ahead of the spit....which moves my nose (and my guns) from behind the con to ahead. In an actual "turning fight" I'd be hopelessly lagging the spitties there....