Squadron leaders

[Oldman731]

In the not-so-distant past, a number of prominent squadrons vowed that they would try to spend some time in AvA.  I may be missing something, but it appears to me that the resolve lasted about two or three weeks.

What happened?

- oldman

[gusman]

Hi Oldman,

imho I think the problem boils down to numbers. If a squadron shows up and want to fly together then one side has the advantage of numbers. Then the accusations of gangin flare up and u get all that acrimony on 200. So it's like flying in the LW arenas.

Now if we could get a couple of squads in the AvA (different sides of course) that would allievate the problem. But the FSO has started up and a lot of the squads who have been in AvA are committed to FSO.

The population of the Main arenas is more diverse then the AvA. So the AvA will never be as populated as the main arenas. The MA is compromised of GVers, CVers, Bombers, Jabos and furballers. The AvA is 99% furballers. If you look at the MW arena there might be 30 people on but out of these 30 there might be 15 in fighter planes. On a good night there might be 20 people in the AvA but 19 of them are fighter pilots. So from a fighter stand point you want to be in the AvA but a lot of people also want to do the different aspects of AHII.

Another reason the AvA is not populated is the quality of the pilots in the AvA. imo the AvA has the best pilots and if you're a noob you're going to get shot down a lot. This can be discouraging. The good thing  about the victorious pilots in the AvA is they are not as rude as some in the MA

Cheers,

gusman44

[sparow]

Hi Oldman!

I was one of those that volunteered in defense of AvA. I must admit that for two, almost three months, our presence in the Arena was pratically null.

This was due to several reasons:

- our squadron has very few members, we're getting older and RL issues are getting in the way bigtime...
- it's allways harder to get everyone together in the summer because people tend to go away on vacations with the family.
- most of us play in Euro Time Zone and when we log in, AvA is deserted 99% of the time.
- we have been mostly in EW and MW, although sometimes it's hard to find a good fight; we only log into LW if it's totally impossible to find a decent fight in AvA, EW, MW, by this order.
- we are dedicated Spitdweebs and T&B fanatics, tending to like early and mid-war setups and not feeling very confortable in Late War setups...

So, early/mid-war/dogfighter/spitdweebs/old geesers as we are, we are flying less and less every month...

That's why we are not putting our money where our mouth is...

Cheers,

[TheBug]

880 Squadron gave it a try for many weeks but left for some of the reasons gusman pointed out.  We as a squad enjoy flying together and working as a team so only on the few nights we could coordinate something with JG54 we were often forced to fly on opposite sides.  If we were ever to attempt flying together without another opposing squad in there it would generally cause an imbalance.  Also grew tired of the sentiment in there if things went against "the rules" of what I consider just a second dueling arena.

Although we are now 353rd fighter group(a couple stuck with 880 FAA) we still would enjoy coming back to the AvA if things were to change or there was a sudden influx of like minded squads.  The AvA was in my opinion all about community and at this point and time the current community does not make it conducive for historical squads.  But we do respect that community's believes and chose to leave quietly.

Thanks for asking Oldman

[storch]

I'm on hiatus from the AvA.  I don't miss it either.  other JG54 members might be logging in at their discreation.  I would kindly request certain staff members refrain from PM me to return to the AvA.  I may do so at some future date but not any time soon.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by storch
I would kindly request certain staff members refrain from PM me to return to the AvA.  I may do so at some future date but not any time soon.

Sorry I disturbed you, Storch.  It won't happen again.

- oldman

[dedalos]

Originally posted by gusman
Hi Oldman,

imho I think the problem boils down to numbers. If a squadron shows up and want to fly together then one side has the advantage of numbers. Then the accusations of gangin flare up and u get all that acrimony on 200. So it's like flying in the LW arenas.
 

So you cant fly together and not attack a single plane together?  Bunch of BS.

Oldman, this is happening for years now.  They say they will come, some do pop in, and then they leave.  What is the goal here?  Is it to just bring more people in?  Whats the point?  They are not there because they don't like something about it.  So, instead of trying to bring more people in to something they don't like lets make the AvA something they like.  The problem is that they like another MA.  Don't ask me what to change it to because I like it the way it is, lol.  But please, lets not create another MA just so we can bring people in. There is enough MA dweeberry in there already.  No need for more.  That is assuming that we want the AvA to be something different than the MA.  

PS. Storch is right. Please dont ask him to come back.  Thats just proof you are just looking for numbers and not quality.

[toonces3]

Dedalos,
What do you hate about the MA so much?

Why are you so vehemently opposed to the AvA becoming like the MA?

What does AvA provide, right now, that you can't find in the DA?

What would be so bad about having the AvA be just like the MA, but with historically matched plane sets and better terrains- an MA where one isn't compelled to whine about LA dweebs, Spit dweebs, or where everyone isn't flying a N1k, La, Spit 16, etc, etc...?

You seem to be the vocal spokesperson for this line of reasoning, and I really want to understand your perspective.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by toonces3
Dedalos,
What do you hate about the MA so much?

Why are you so vehemently opposed to the AvA becoming like the MA?

What does AvA provide, right now, that you can't find in the DA?

What would be so bad about having the AvA be just like the MA, but with historically matched plane sets and better terrains- an MA where one isn't compelled to whine about LA dweebs, Spit dweebs, or where everyone isn't flying a N1k, La, Spit 16, etc, etc...?

You seem to be the vocal spokesperson for this line of reasoning, and I really want to understand your perspective.

I don't hate the MA.  All I am saying is we have 4 already.  If the AvA is supposed to be different then why make it the 5th.  There is the early and mid war MA if you have some problem with the lalas, nikis, etc.  However, no matter the set up, there will always be a best turning and a fastest plane.  So, then what?  We will complain about those right?
The AvA right now is something different to try when you get bored of the other things.  The DA cant provide what the AvA does because you always know who you will fight at what alt, in what plane, what speed, fuel load, etc.  It is also always 1 vs 1.  I really like the 1 vs 2 or 3 or even 4.  What I don't like is the 4th guy coming in late in the fight and with the AvA vis settings, it is impossible to see him on time.
So, historical set ups.  What are they?  Nothing in the game is historical.  Not the weather, the skill, the morale, condition of equipment, not to mention the actual war.  In WWII you did not have to kill one gun and drop 10 guys to take a VH.  The fear of death is not historical either.  So, nothing can be historical except the plane sets.  Oh, wait, they already are, so can someone explain to me what you are asking for?
You have been in the AvA right?  All I have seen from the historical guys is come in high and fast and pick someone off (oklok, sehob, ex0set, most of JG54).  Its just an excuse to go cherry pick without having to read about it on 200.  
So, what is the goal and what is the question.  There are 4 MAs that all this can be achieved plus one AvA that supports all that.  Why try to make it just another MA?  For the most part it already is. The only reason you can find descent fights there is because of the low numbers that allow you to isolate the people I mentioned above.  And when they are all online, the place empties fast.

[Tiger]

So Ded,  what would YOU like to see change in the AvA?  Or would you prefer to leave it as is?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Tiger
So Ded,  what would YOU like to see change in the AvA?  Or would you prefer to leave it as is?

Already answered that.  I like it as is.  I dont like some of the crowd there, but I like it as is.  Only thing I would change is visibility range.  Current settings only help people avoiding fights.  If the goal of AvA is to promote fighting, then help us find the fight.

[toonces3]

Thank you for the post Dedalos.

I'd like to tag with Tiger.  What would YOU like to see the AvA like?  Status quo?  Something different?  What is YOUR vision of the AvA?

I'm not picking on you; rather, you seem to represent a certain...feeling...about what the AvA should be and I'd like to know what that is.

I haven't been around nearly as long as you, but I disagree with your assertion that we have 4 MA's right now.  Ok, technically we do.  But the numbers really show us that we have 2 main arenas, 2 side show arenas, and then the AvA which is the red headed step child of AH2.  

I feel that the AvA would be best utilized as the 5th MA, with the restrictions it has currently in place.  It's not more of the same.  It's an air combat environment with:

1.  restricted planesets
2.  different (better) terrains- and somewhat historical
3.  more restrictive radar and visual settings

I, for one, would fly in here exclusively if the population would match LW Orange nightly, and I wouldn't complain a lick about all the things you hear on 200 in any MA.  I strongly prefer items 1-3 above, and I enjoy the MA style of play.  But that's just me.

If I want to duel or fly in a lighter environment, I believe the DA offers that in the furball area, although in all fairness I say this without having spent any real time in the DA.  I could be wrong.

The AvA as you describe is a waste of time and resources, in my opinion, but this is simply my opinion and isn't any more right or wrong than yours.  And I'm willing to listen to someone who's been around longer than me- you've earned the right to have more of a say than me.

I'm never going to attract the 348th into the AvA as a squad because I know none of us wants to deal with the inevitable cries of ganging/picking/ etc etc when we fly in anything resembling teamwork.  None of us needs or wants the headache.

Finally, given the AvA population, and the size of the terrains, the AvA as it currently stands could support both of our styles of play quite easily.  There is more than enough room to spread out.

[KONG1]

I'm with Ded he..(Cough Cough) sorry gagged on that a bit.  THE arena where I've had the most fights with the shortest investment in time and greatest variety.

To me seems strange when someone wants to "fix" the best arena.

Just leave full dar on, I want to find and be found.

[toonces3]

Best to how many Kong1?

I'm ranked 1400 something in fighters in the MA.

I'm ranked (or was) 71 in AvA.

Assuming I'm in the middle of both:

3000+ in MA
150+ in AvA

AvA is the best arena?  Assume half of the AvA'ers who have a rank agree with you.
You're telling me that out of 3000+ players, we're catering a whole arena to 75 +/- players?  You don't see something wrong with that?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by toonces3

I feel that the AvA would be best utilized as the 5th MA, with the restrictions it has currently in place.  It's not more of the same.  It's an air combat environment with:

1.  restricted planesets
2.  different (better) terrains- and somewhat historical
3.  more restrictive radar and visual settings

Isn't this what you mean by historical?

The AvA as you describe is a waste of time and resources, in my opinion, but this is simply my opinion and isn't any more right or wrong than yours.  And I'm willing to listen to someone who's been around longer than me- you've earned the right to have more of a say than me.

I'm never going to attract the 348th into the AvA as a squad because I know none of us wants to deal with the inevitable cries of ganging/picking/ etc etc when we fly in anything resembling teamwork.  None of us needs or wants the headache.

Finally, given the AvA population, and the size of the terrains, the AvA as it currently stands could support both of our styles of play quite easily.  There is more than enough room to spread out.

First of all, I am not your resource. So get over the waste of resources thingie.  No one complains about team work.  I love it.  3 4 5 vs 1 I don't care as long as I know you are there.  The 7th guy coming in 5 minutes later is not team work.  If you guys cant tell the difference I cant explain it to you.

As I said.  It is all BS to justify your actions.  

I dont know what the AvA should or could be.  i know I like it as is. and I cant figure out what you want changed.  It seems to have everything u ask for.