Author Topic: More Legal Advice Needed....  (Read 1827 times)

Offline Slash27

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12798
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2007, 08:53:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Breathe Wab, innnn, ouuuut, relax. Don't let this obnoxious person steal your inner peace. You might even go out of your way to be nice to her. Apologize to her. What does it cost you?


Holy tree hugging crap. No way in hell would that happen.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13346
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2007, 08:57:04 PM »
No one is saying she wasn't an obnoxious twit. A little humbleness and kindess goes a long ways and it never hurts either party is all I'm sayin'.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8619
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2007, 09:35:23 PM »
Sorry, I had to go get some beer now that I'm calm enough to drive. And I had to do a little googling.


So I open the door and there are two very large officers standing there, cautious and watchful.  They kept their hands resting on their very large pistols with a kind of very studied casualness.

So I invite them in.  They come in slowly and carefully.  

They start asking some questions, I start answering.  The whole time they are just watching me.  I'm being polite, friendly, and as calm as I can but I can tell they can still see I'm tweaked to the max and still pumping with adrenelin.  Basically I'm still so pissed I can harldy see straight but I'm trying hard not to let it show.

They want my drivers license and I say its in the bedroom and I start to turn around and go get it but kinda feel that whole room tense up.  (OK I'm not thinking straight.  No coffee, too much excitement for early morning...)  I stop and turn around slowly and smile "uhh I mean its in my bedroom.  You want me to go get it?"

The older cop just nods stoned face, not saying a word.  I go back to my bedroom but I don't think he followed me which seems really wierd now.  I wish he would have followed me so he could watch me and feel more comfortable.  I REALLY wanted the guys to feel comfortable.

When I come back, the older cop had positioned himself at the front of the hallway leading to the bedroom (maybe he was watching me down the hall).  The other cop had moved from by the door, across the room to the other corner where he could watch the second bedroom and the older cop at the from of the hall.  

That kinda creeped me out when I came back and everyone had drastically changed position across the room.

So I hand over my id and UPS slip and he tells me to continue the story.  So I lay it all out.  I'm doing voices, I throw in some mime, shadow puppets... the works.  I'm going thru the story and slowly I can feel the older cop relaxing.  He starts to chuckle as I tell my tale.  Even the muscle cop, who took up high cover position, relaxed and started walking around the room looking as my stuff (not staring at me which made me feel better).  Every once in a while the older cop would laugh and tell me to slow down so he could write it all and the muscle cop would ask me a question about an antique thing or one of my oil paintings while he was catching up.  


Finally the older cop just put away his note book and said:  "Look, I wasn't there.  I can't say you were in the right, I can't say she was in the right.  I can say we were sent here to investigate a complaint of public disturbance against you, but I don't see anything here that justifies that.  This is a civil
matter that you need to take up with your apartment management Moday.  Don't go back to the office this weekend.  Straighten it out next week when the manager is there.  But you can tell them that we came here and talked to you and determined there was no misconduct on your part.  If they want to see our report they can.  Other than that we don't need to take up any more of your time.  Just calm down, because I can see you are excited, be an adult and straighten it out next week with the management."

So I'm like ....fine, great.  Can you at least go with me down there with my drivers license and UPS slip so I can get my freakin $1,000 camera from Juanita the gang bangress???  I don't understand why I am being denied my own lawful property.

"No no no.  We can't get involved in that.  You go back down there and we are going to have a problem with you.  Thats a civil matter and we can't get involved."

I just stand there dumbfounded as the cops walk away.  I have been treated rudely, unprofessionally, and denied access to my own lawful private property, and the cops can't get involved!


Sooooooo  thats it.  I'm sorry, I know you were expecting a big finale.  Wab barrackaded in his apartment with his Springfield 45, shooting through the window at the cop cars and those big flood lights shinning into my apartment and me yelling through the broken glass: "YOU"LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE YOU DIRTY YELLOW RATS!!!!!"  

But thats how my day ended, not with a bang but with a whimper.



I have several questions though.  This is a pretty varied community with different educations and experiences.


I would like to believe I could reason with the management.  But I'm not holding my breath.  Its been my experience that most apartment people are like carnie freaks.  They tend to close ranks and protect their own and see the tenants as inconvieniences.

I assume that there isn't any reasonable chance they can terminate my lease because of a run in with the staff?  I plan  to get out of this *****e hole as fast as possible but I don't want to have to be fighting an eviction notice to make it difficult for me to move in somewhere else.  I've never been late on a rent or utils check the 10 years I've been here.  I assume since the cops found no basis for the complaint, they would have no grounds.  Am I wrong?  Do I have any recourse against unfair retaliation?


Also, I'm still pissed I was denied my property.  Infuriated actually.  It just seems illegal to me.  Irregardless of any argument or hard feelings, once I have presented my drivers license and UPS slip I cannnot see how they had any right to deny me my property!  Now looking it up, I guess it wouldn't be considered theft. I doubt anyone believes she has the intention to permanently keep my property.  But there is something called Criminal Conversion of Private Property.

Wiki:

Criminal conversion, in criminal law, is usually defined as the crime of exerting unauthorised use or control of someone else's property. It differs from theft in that it does not include the element of intending to deprive the owner of the possession of that property. As such, it is a lesser included offense of the crime of theft.

An example might be tapping someone's wireless LAN or public utility line (which could also amount to theft of services). Another example might be taking a "joy ride" in a car, never intending to keep it from the owner. Some places have defined such conduct as a specific type of theft, perhaps with a modified penalty.

Note that the "unauthorized" use may begin after a period of authorized use, where, for example, a person rents a car then keeps it for an extra week without permission from the rental company. Another common example occurs when a person fails to report finding lost goods (including animals), intending only to keep them until someone asks for their return. When the intent becomes one of keeping them, it's a theft.



Do I have a leg to stand on?  She unlawfully denied me possession of my lawful private property against my permission.  Even if it was for a couple of days it doesn't matter.  (Like the joy-rider example.)  

The apartment management are going to blow me off I suspect, possible even try and harrass and evict me.  If I had a real legal club to wield I'd feel much better.  If I had an actual criminal complaint to file and use as a bargining chip to either press of drop I would feel in a better position.  I don't know why the cops blew me off.  Maybe it was too subtle a legal point for them, maybe they just had bigger fish to fry.

Am I completely off base?


Thanks in advance for any advice.


Regards,
Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13346
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2007, 09:55:16 PM »
You're not off base Wabbit. Very normal reaction imo. You might call the office and talk to someone else tomorrow. Perhaps then you can arrange to pick up your camera.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2007, 09:57:01 PM »
I'm not saying that this is the best idea, but I'd file a complaint against her right away.  I think this is theft.  Don't let her make all the moves and put you on the defense only.  Call the police when those two goons are off their shift.  Get someone with a better attitude; they showed up on her side…

Also, don't you have any kind of a landlord you can call?  I’d work at getting her fired.  I’d also threaten leaving; you are more valuable than she is.  They won’t evict you, good tenants are hard to find.

Offline Dichotomy

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12391
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2007, 10:25:43 PM »
Okay now that I know how it ended.  This is my opinion based on some of the dealings I've had and my readings of the Texas Civil Code.  

Number one.  It's your word against hers about what went in on the office unless they have video evidence to support her side of the story.  Subsequently if you behaved in a threatening manner towards her and it's caught on tape they have valid reason for evicting you.  Not saying it's right just saying it's possible.  If the story is 100% the way you presented it then you should be okay.

I would see if someone else is working tomorrow and retrieve your property first and foremost and, no matter what, be as nice as the pope on xanax no matter what happens.  In fact I'd watch the office and make sure that there are other people there to witness how nice and harmless you are.

The agent, as I understand it, is the owners representative of the company and the owners or agents thereof.  Subsequently your beef is with them not her.  Find out who owns the complex and take your complaint directly to them.  Don't talk to the manager etc.. go straight to the top with it because the office staff will rally wagons around her even if they hate her guts.  

Remind the owners in writing how long you've lived there, the fact that you've paid your rent on time, and have never been a problem, and from this day forward whenever you deal with the office twits be very nice, smile, and make them feel like you like them.  

Then move to Arlington where I've got a fellow AH'r close enough to go get a beer with.  

ORRRRRRRRR

You could just tell me the complex you live in and She Devil and I can come in the next day she's working alone and we can run her all over the complex for ****s and giggles.

All we need is a victim and an audience ;)

In fact... PM me... her brother gets home from the Sandbox in October and the three of us together are REALLY something to behold when we have someone to abuse :D
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline rpm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15661
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2007, 10:28:42 PM »
Did you think to call UPS and tell them they refused to give you your package? I think they might have a problem with that.

I still think she used your package for field goal practice after you left.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2007, 10:40:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Did you think to call UPS and tell them they refused to give you your package? I think they might have a problem with that.

I still think she used your package for field goal practice after you left.


That's a really good idea!

Offline sgt203

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 516
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2007, 10:50:23 PM »
Well....... WOW.....

Biatch in spades..

You did the right thing by choosing option "d".

Being ordered from the property by someone with the lawful authority to do so and failing to leave could have left you in a criminal situation. In Pa that would be Defiant Trespass (misdemeanor 3 I believe).

Even though I am on your side in this 1000% unfortunately that is the case here.

As far as denying you acess to your own property I honestly do not know if you have a criminal case against the clerk from He77 or not.

I would take this up with the management, check your lease and see if you have reason to terminate your lease based upon what you find.

I would let management know this is what you are preparing to do. Kind of put them on notice you may be leaving over his incident.

As far as the officers go IMO they did what was right. This is a civil issue not criminal in nature and therefore they were not getting involved. PERIOD. Remember they do not know you from adam and you are probably right they could see that you were agitated upon their initial contact with you. They used sound tactics to assure they were not in danger until such time as they realized what this incident actually was. ( I will say with the exception of allowing you to go into another room out of their sight... you never know).

If you have a friend who is an attorney maybe you could get him to fire off a letter to the management indicating should such an incident ever take place again you will pursue all the legal options available to you to seek redress for any damages you may have suffered, or for any private property rights they may have violated.

All in all I will say even though you and I both would have liked to have grabbed the lil wench by her throat and squeezed until her eyes buldged out and she turned 5 differing shades of blue, you made the right choice.

And hey if you want to move and cant wait what is the difference between you or them termininating your lease either way your out :aok.

<<>>

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2007, 10:51:28 PM »
First off, you were not arrested so there is no criminal action going against you.

Secondly your only real option is to deal with the upper management of the apt. complex. You need to let them know that your property is being held by a belligerent employee. Do not talk to the one you had a problem with again if you can help it.

If you try to file a complaint for disorderly conduct against her it won't fly as you have nothing to back it up with. It's a you said, she said and no one to prove it one way or the other. You have, as the Officer told you, a civil matter, not a criminal one. They can't help you there, they might want to but they can't get involved in a civil dispute.

You already have proof that UPS delivered. They delivered the item so they will NOT get involved. There is no reason for them to do so as they completed the delivery and it was accepted at the property. There isn't anything they can do anyhow.

Next time you need something sent UPS, have it delivered to the main UPS terminal and then you go pick it up in person. Do not let the apt. folks get involved in it.

If the management does not help you by giving you the package then your option is to file a suit against them for it. Again you have proof of delivery but not proof of undamaged delivery.

Lastly, find a better place to live. You are not going to win any fights with employees by getting in their face. If you try to do that you better have something to back it up with witnesses or video or at the very least a tape recording of the conversation. Then plan on having your apt. and vehicle vandalized. This is not a fight you want to get into as you are way too vulnerable dealing with a gang banger working for the apt. management.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline fuzeman

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9007
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2007, 11:03:03 PM »
Next time you get a delivery, pick it up when Miss Tatoo is there. Hopefully she'll be on the phone and the same thing happens.
This time however, you will have recorded the whole thing with the little tape recorder you have in your pocket.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG54

Offline Dichotomy

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12391
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2007, 11:14:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by sgt203
Well....... WOW.....

Biatch in spades..

You did the right thing by choosing option "d".

Being ordered from the property by someone with the lawful authority to do so and failing to leave could have left you in a criminal situation. In Pa that would be Defiant Trespass (misdemeanor 3 I believe).

Even though I am on your side in this 1000% unfortunately that is the case here.

As far as denying you acess to your own property I honestly do not know if you have a criminal case against the clerk from He77 or not.

I would take this up with the management, check your lease and see if you have reason to terminate your lease based upon what you find.

I would let management know this is what you are preparing to do. Kind of put them on notice you may be leaving over his incident.

As far as the officers go IMO they did what was right. This is a civil issue not criminal in nature and therefore they were not getting involved. PERIOD. Remember they do not know you from adam and you are probably right they could see that you were agitated upon their initial contact with you. They used sound tactics to assure they were not in danger until such time as they realized what this incident actually was. ( I will say with the exception of allowing you to go into another room out of their sight... you never know).

If you have a friend who is an attorney maybe you could get him to fire off a letter to the management indicating should such an incident ever take place again you will pursue all the legal options available to you to seek redress for any damages you may have suffered, or for any private property rights they may have violated.

All in all I will say even though you and I both would have liked to have grabbed the lil wench by her throat and squeezed until her eyes buldged out and she turned 5 differing shades of blue, you made the right choice.

And hey if you want to move and cant wait what is the difference between you or them termininating your lease either way your out :aok.

<<>>


I do believe we have a budding and local attorney that visits these boards on a regular basis.  :D
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline megadud

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2935
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2007, 11:15:05 PM »
i would have went with option a and got my package, good story though, you put alot of detail into it, you should write  book! :aok

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2007, 11:22:22 PM »
I'd call a lawyer.  She's illegally holding your property.  If you can't get it after a second attempt, call the cops and report the property as stolen, and you can even positively ID the person who stole it.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Leslie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2212
More Legal Advice Needed....
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2007, 11:59:20 PM »
Hopefully you won't have to deal with her again.  If you do, don't go alone.  You need to retrieve your property asap and check for damage.  

Write a letter to the appropriate party, sleep on it a day or two and send it registered mail.  Keep copies of all correspondence in a file.  From now on whenever you talk with management, write down who you spoke with and the time and date.  You have renter's rights if they try to evict you over this.  Good luck.



Les