Are you Scared?

[john9001]

Originally posted by RedTop

A VOTE is NEVER wasted. When you vote you do the single most inportant thing and american can do.....you try to make a differance.

ross Perot, the vote was not wasted, it helped elect a democrat.

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by john9001
ross Perot, the vote was not wasted, it helped elect a democrat.

Ross helped elect the democrat, by bungling the campaign. If he had stayed the course, and never dropped out, things could have been very different.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Bodhi
I have far from given up.  I exercise my right to vote, as well as prepare for the alternative to this situation we face.  Giving up and whining is a liberal option, and I am not a liberal.

But do you consistantly vote Rebublican?
If so your only contributing to the status quoe
as such are thus part of the problem.

The ONLY way we are ever going to force any kinf of change is by going outside of the big two.

Consistantly voting for Dem or Reb only gets you another tool.

Its like divorcing your wife then getting remarried.

Same headache. only the face has changed

[RedTop]

Originally posted by john9001
ross Perot, the vote was not wasted, it helped elect a democrat.

That's not the point.

No matter your canidate , or who may win off of people voting for others outside the 2 party system , the vote is counted and is important.

If MORE people voted in the elections , it could be possible to show the 2 major parties that a significant part of the populace is fed up with thier B.S..

<--registered Republican.

Voting is frikin important and not wasted.

Maybe , the benifactor of the so called "wasted" vote was lucky that the losing party didn't have any better choice to offer up. Ever think of it that way?

If the DEMS win we're screwed hard.....If the republicans win we're screwed but with a kiss.

Either way , for ANYONE to try to cast a stone at a person who VOTES THIER CANIDATE no matter who it is calling it wasted because some other party benifits , is frankly FULL OF CHIT.

[Charon]

Don't think that......Your vote...no matter who it is for is NEVER wasted. I understand your point...but....its not wasted...its' merley cast for who YOU...an american voting....thinks will do the better job or holds the stance you agree with.

Chill out, man.

I understand that, and will have no trouble voting for Paul even though it may impact a lesser of two evils. I simply used "wasted" in the common language of lesser of two evil politics (which if you read my post you will see I disagree with). Didn't vote for Bush or Kerry in the last election either. Paul is a bit too extreme for me, though, but far less extreme than Hillary, Obama, McCain or Rudy from what I want to see happen in Washington. It's an honest vote.

I don't know that you can turn back the big gov. clock to the 1780s, 1860s or even pre New Deal. Don't know if it would be a good idea to turn it THAT far back. But, pre Great Society would be nice.

Charon

[Eagler]

the lesser of two evils has always received my vote ... since 92 that has been the republican ticket as it will be again in 08

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by Charon
That's the potentially discouraging part. I THINK there are enough people from most sub groups (even those with different world views in general) that are just pissed at how things have been run lately. A majority? Enough to make a difference, perhaps.

Beyond just some generic wish for change and a belief that the system is broken, is a smaller government something most people understand and would support these days from either either party... I'm not so sure. Is it something that they can be educated on in the face of the obvious spin attacks and media support? Tough call. Thank god for the Internet, at least for as long as it's still allowed to disrupt the controlled Washington political and MSM machine.

Charon

That's what I was thinking, but the way I see it, You might have a whole populace that wants the existing gov't. gone, but each group has a different idea of what should take it's place. So what we have, is a situation getting steadily worse, with people wanting change, but afraid of the infighting and anarchy that change will bring. This is the real tool of power over the people. The populace is at 300+million people, but all divided into groups based on race, religion, wealth, etc...And getting all of these groups to agree on one way that this country should be run is an impossibility.

     To put it into perspective: Let's say sometime down the road, the gov't. does something really harsh, or oppressive, the match that sets off the strife that some of the BBS members' here think will happen. Ok, Let's say we have the equivalent of a revolution (or a 2nd civil war) and the current gov't. and 2 party system is dispensed with. What then? You have so many different groups stepping forward to claim power, that the strife goes on. Until society is reduced back to subsistence farming.

That would be the "Postman" scenario. The other theory I have is something like the country splitting up into a bunch of smaller, individual "nations". Along what lines, however, is still up in the air because of economic, ethnic, or whatever different demographics. However, I can see what Bodhi meant about being afraid of the future. We are rapidly coming to the point where something is going to happen, because of strains along all the different divisions of American society.

When you throw enough ingredients into the "melting pot" you eventually come up with a poison, i'm afraid.

[RedTop]

Is totally chilled....


No worries....I read your posts and on alot I agree.

<---buying stock in KY and Chapstik.....

When the politicians and screwing ya they are trying hard to kiss you *** for a vote.

Hmmmm  possible (TM)

The KY Chapstik Parties:lol

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
That's what I was thinking, but the way I see it, You might have a whole populace that wants the existing gov't. gone, but each group has a different idea of what should take it's place. So what we have, is a situation getting steadily worse, with people wanting change, but afraid of the infighting and anarchy that change will bring. This is the real tool of power over the people. The populace is at 300+million people, but all divided into groups based on race, religion, wealth, etc...And getting all of these groups to agree on one way that this country should be run is an impossibility.

     To put it into perspective: Let's say sometime down the road, the gov't. does something really harsh, or oppressive, the match that sets off the strife that some of the BBS members' here think will happen. Ok, Let's say we have the equivalent of a revolution (or a 2nd civil war) and the current gov't. and 2 party system is dispensed with. What then? You have so many different groups stepping forward to claim power, that the strife goes on. Until society is reduced back to subsistence farming.

That would be the "Postman" scenario. The other theory I have is something like the country splitting up into a bunch of smaller, individual "nations". Along what lines, however, is still up in the air because of economic, ethnic, or whatever different demographics. However, I can see what Bodhi meant about being afraid of the future. We are rapidly coming to the point where something is going to happen, because of strains along all the different divisions of American society.

When you throw enough ingredients into the "melting pot" you eventually come up with a poison, i'm afraid.

Everyone thinks Democracy is freedom.  It's not.  Usually about half the population gets screwed.  When you have a population of 300 million, half is a lot of people.

[x0847Marine]

It's already over, the RNC & DNC have taken total control of the process over the years and are not going to give up their power for something as silly as the good of the country. In reality, theres not much the little people can do about it, peacefully.

Make signs, burn candles, march, yell, protest.. they'll ignore you because they can, thats if you are not arrested for crossing the police tape or lacking the proper permit.

They know all to well that when election day arrives, hardcore party sheep would rather eat glass than vote for the other team. Independent voters sick of both parties are stuck in a hopeless situation of choosing between the Idiot and the handsomehunk, like trying to pick up a fecal loaf by the clean end... or by "throwing away" their vote on A 3rd party dude the ruling parties have declared as a fringe lunatic.

The sad part is the sheepeople who march in left, right lock step with the ruling elite.. voting under the false hope that this time, just maybe, the liars will actually deliver, or that the other teams liars will be stopped.

[FrodeMk3]

In reality, LS, any political system, be it Democracy, Communism, Monarchy, Dictatorship, whatever, is only as good as the people that implement it are.

As more and more politicians have gotten used to taking money to vote the way an interested 3rd party wants, the U.S. gov't. has gotten to the point that Right and Wrong, Justice and injustice, have less and less bearing on any matter. I would be willing to bet that if a Large enough corporation wanted to, and the went to enough of the individual representatives of gov't. that they could even have the constitution repealed.

This is not a gov't. of men who aspire to do good deeds.

They are the greedy, the contempt, the seeds of our downfall, when you cross they're palms with enough dollars.

[john9001]

term limits.

[Masherbrum]

I'm through voting for Republicans or Democrats.    They're both pathetic, inept, and NOT the lesser of the two evils".   They ARE the two evils.  

At this point I'd vote for Pooh Bear.    I'll never understand why some can debate for hours about politicians who can give a rat's a** about you, as long as they are getting tax dollars.    

BUT, ask a politician "Why do I have to be taxed for Social Security, and you don't?"    I saw a State Senator this weekend and asked him.    He got flush and walked away, I repeated my question louder.    His old, wrinkly, I don't give a crap about Michiganders a** practically ran from me.    

Piss on both parties, one has Dumbo as it's mascot and the other has "Number Seven" as it's mascot.    

Being the President means you get to pick and choose who to be "adulterous" this weekend with.   Meanwhile, IGNORING our educational system is foundering like the Goldfish at the end of the "Epic" video.   It also means that the Corporations had the deep pockets, because the public sure as hell doesn't want either candidate in office.

[Irwink!]

Originally posted by john9001
term limits.

Swell. Now just who is it exactly that's going to turn that into law?

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
In reality, LS, any political system, be it Democracy, Communism, Monarchy, Dictatorship, whatever, is only as good as the people that implement it are.

As more and more politicians have gotten used to taking money to vote the way an interested 3rd party wants, the U.S. gov't. has gotten to the point that Right and Wrong, Justice and injustice, have less and less bearing on any matter. I would be willing to bet that if a Large enough corporation wanted to, and the went to enough of the individual representatives of gov't. that they could even have the constitution repealed.

This is not a gov't. of men who aspire to do good deeds.

They are the greedy, the contempt, the seeds of our downfall, when you cross they're palms with enough dollars.

No.  You keep forgetting that even if a government is instituted by the best and the brightest, very easily can nearly half the population get screwed out of what they want.

Government has never been about right and wrong.  It's been about taking power that is not theirs.  

Greed is fine.  There is nothing wrong with greed.  However, when you start to rationalize taking what is not yours, then you've jumped both feet first into thievery.  And this is what government is.  Taking what is not theirs by force.