Author Topic: Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?  (Read 1042 times)

Offline SaburoS

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2007, 12:52:48 AM »
SSI despite constantly being raided to fund other govt programs, is a viable system. One of the most successful govt program. If every last penny including interest was put back in that was taken out, there wouldn't be this talk of it disappearing. There'd be a surplus. Those that would rather gamble their funds on the stock market are deluding themselves as that being safer or better than SSI. Not many know how to play the market that well.
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Offline Arlo

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2007, 01:05:28 AM »
The market's just another form of gambling. I'm sure the "high-rollers" would love to have money to play with from those who can't afford to lose it.

Offline Rolex

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2007, 02:03:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I have children and grandchildren and hoping before I die even greatgrandchildren. I would not be a sore burden upon future generations and I'm doing what I can to avoid that and would even go suffering quietly into the night if it meant their well being. Allowing a government to visit upon them pain and false promises in their declining years I may not suffer in silence.


Too late to be thinking about it now. The die is cast. 10,000 people will be added every day to the Social Security out basket and the greed of the boomers could very well strike flames of resentment in the younger folks who will have to pay more. The Boomers are going to demand their money because we're greedy mothers, on average. Just because you don't want to place a burden on your family doesn't mean everyone else isn't happy to do it.

Having been hoodwinked into needing two incomes for a family and spending more than is made can only be bad. The savings rate in the US is negative. How can the younger ones save in the future when they can't save now? The savings fairy?

The government is going to raise taxes, reduce or extend the time to start benefits and you'll still be digging a hole. It's going to a competition between corporations and people for the government handouts, and you aren't organized enough to lobby politicians, so the corporations are going to win.

The government prefers that you just go back to work, continuing to pay taxes, and work until you drop dead. But, they'll call it the "Older American Empowerment Act" or "The Free Market Retirement Security System" or some other such nonsense.

The other technique is to print some more money. Ouch. That will hurt. Foreign investment in US bonds has taken a sharp downturn lately and inflation is going to accelerate the pain.

Who said Freedom and Capitalism? You're living in a high school history book if you think todays economy is Capitalism or a free market.

Anyway, to be honest, I doubt the US will be in its current form in 2050 anyway.

Calling it America instead of its name, The United States of America, or the US is interesting. It dissolves the "United" part of the name and ignores the "States" part. Both of those words were there for a reason.

The US has no unifying culture or goals anymore. Disparate interests are what have torn all nations and cultures apart. Without some common traditions and goals, a society is destined to divide. Sometimes societies are reset under a different structure and sometimes they just break up into regions divided by something - religion, ethnicity, etc. Wars cannot be the only rallying point of a culture.

The genius of the founders, framers and writers of the Constitution was that they understood and predicted that disparate goals in the future would happen and that dividing the nation into regions with common interests and cultures was not to be feared. In fact, it didn't matter to them. Some even expected western areas to become a separate country.

What did matter was that the original states were united in the goal of limiting the power of the federal government. People could live in the societies they chose to create in states, and the needs and values of the people in smaller regions could be affected efficiently. The founders did not fight a war of independence just to hand it over to a handful of lawyers appointed for life, or temporary federal managers. The federal entity was to issue currency, make treaties, facilitate trade, deliver mail and provide for a united defense of the United States against foreign invasion. That's about it. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is what you did within the state you chose to live in.

That's why they offered up a mechanism to change the government and asked that future generations do just that, when it becomes necessary. Unfortunately, people today are comatose from nonsense manufactured by TV, Hollywood and Washington DC.

The US is middle aged and large, not just in girth. Scale does matter. Look at older societies and you'll see smaller sizes or more things in common among its members. The large older societies, China, India, Russia, etc. have gone through turmoil and/or divisions because large societies are dysfunctional without real common interests. Strong control over large groups of people and "directing" large societies by fear or force - monetary or by the barrel or a gun - is part of recurring history.

Offline Sixpence

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2007, 08:27:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DYNAMITE
well, on these boards I'm most certainly one of the young'ns (1976) and I can say with out a doubt that I have zero confidence that I will receive any of my social security benefit.  

I'm happy enough to pay into it as I see it as a means of giving back to the generations that came before me, but like I said, I know it won't be around by the time I come of age.


We've basically been told it will run out before we retire. I think I have put in about 25k already, I consider it another tax, thnx Ronald Reagan
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline lasersailor184

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2007, 08:30:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
SSI despite constantly being raided to fund other govt programs, is a viable system. One of the most successful govt program. If every last penny including interest was put back in that was taken out, there wouldn't be this talk of it disappearing. There'd be a surplus. Those that would rather gamble their funds on the stock market are deluding themselves as that being safer or better than SSI. Not many know how to play the market that well.


It was never viable.






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Offline Sixpence

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2007, 08:36:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
Too late to be thinking about it now. The die is cast. 10,000 people will be added every day to the Social Security out basket and the greed of the boomers could very well strike flames of resentment in the younger folks who will have to pay more. The Boomers are going to demand their money because we're greedy mothers, on average. Just because you don't want to place a burden on your family doesn't mean everyone else isn't happy to do it.

Having been hoodwinked into needing two incomes for a family and spending more than is made can only be bad. The savings rate in the US is negative. How can the younger ones save in the future when they can't save now? The savings fairy?

The government is going to raise taxes, reduce or extend the time to start benefits and you'll still be digging a hole. It's going to a competition between corporations and people for the government handouts, and you aren't organized enough to lobby politicians, so the corporations are going to win.

The government prefers that you just go back to work, continuing to pay taxes, and work until you drop dead. But, they'll call it the "Older American Empowerment Act" or "The Free Market Retirement Security System" or some other such nonsense.

The other technique is to print some more money. Ouch. That will hurt. Foreign investment in US bonds has taken a sharp downturn lately and inflation is going to accelerate the pain.

Who said Freedom and Capitalism? You're living in a high school history book if you think todays economy is Capitalism or a free market.

Anyway, to be honest, I doubt the US will be in its current form in 2050 anyway.

Calling it America instead of its name, The United States of America, or the US is interesting. It dissolves the "United" part of the name and ignores the "States" part. Both of those words were there for a reason.

The US has no unifying culture or goals anymore. Disparate interests are what have torn all nations and cultures apart. Without some common traditions and goals, a society is destined to divide. Sometimes societies are reset under a different structure and sometimes they just break up into regions divided by something - religion, ethnicity, etc. Wars cannot be the only rallying point of a culture.

The genius of the founders, framers and writers of the Constitution was that they understood and predicted that disparate goals in the future would happen and that dividing the nation into regions with common interests and cultures was not to be feared. In fact, it didn't matter to them. Some even expected western areas to become a separate country.

What did matter was that the original states were united in the goal of limiting the power of the federal government. People could live in the societies they chose to create in states, and the needs and values of the people in smaller regions could be affected efficiently. The founders did not fight a war of independence just to hand it over to a handful of lawyers appointed for life, or temporary federal managers. The federal entity was to issue currency, make treaties, facilitate trade, deliver mail and provide for a united defense of the United States against foreign invasion. That's about it. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is what you did within the state you chose to live in.

That's why they offered up a mechanism to change the government and asked that future generations do just that, when it becomes necessary. Unfortunately, people today are comatose from nonsense manufactured by TV, Hollywood and Washington DC.

The US is middle aged and large, not just in girth. Scale does matter. Look at older societies and you'll see smaller sizes or more things in common among its members. The large older societies, China, India, Russia, etc. have gone through turmoil and/or divisions because large societies are dysfunctional without real common interests. Strong control over large groups of people and "directing" large societies by fear or force - monetary or by the barrel or a gun - is part of recurring history.


Well said
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Gunslinger

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2007, 08:45:02 AM »
The problem is anytime you do ANYTHING positive or negative to try and fix it the AARP gets on the tube and scares seniors into thinking that somone is taking away your social security.

Offline FiLtH

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2007, 08:52:38 AM »
I hope folks get their SS. I mean the way it is now with grandparents busy raising both their 25 yr old children, and their infants, its going to make it real hard when they also have to raise the great grand children.

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Offline lazs2

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2007, 09:03:07 AM »
yep..  I don't really count on SS or even need it but... I am going to take every penny I( can as soon as I can... to me... it is money they stole from me in the first place.

filth is correct.. there are so many of us grandparents raising kids and grandkids and such that we need the money.

it is funny that people who see old people as being the problem with ss all seem to think that a socialized medicine program will work.  with the young and the productive paying for the old and reitired.

rolex... this may be the second time I have said this about one of your posts but your post was spot on.

lazs

Offline SkyRock

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2007, 09:07:37 AM »
I personally am not counting on SS either.  

Not to hijack the thread, but....
how long can capitalism last as we know it?

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Offline lazs2

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2007, 09:11:50 AM »
what does capitalism have to do with ss..  ss is socialism.

The better question would be... how long can a capitalist society survive under more and more socialism?

socialized medicine and opening the floodgates of voting to illegals from 3rd world countries may be the end.

lazs

Offline Eagler

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2007, 09:16:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
I hope folks get their SS. I mean the way it is now with grandparents busy raising both their 25 yr old children, and their infants, its going to make it real hard when they also have to raise the great grand children.


^^ sad but very true in way too many cases these days

my SS is spelled "401k"
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Offline Tiger

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Will Social Security pay or be the end of our government as we know it?
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2007, 09:25:57 AM »
I hate SS.  I love getting my little statement every year showing how much I've paid in.  I'll never see a penny of it.  I would have been better off if they would not have taken it form me and let me slap that into my 401k or my employee stock purchase plan.

Back in the beginning, if I recall correctly, SS was voluntary not required.

Offline AKIron

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Quote
Originally posted by Shamus
Geez Iron now you sound like a liberal.. you didn't make a life long "investment", you paid a tax.

I have always gotten a kick out of the folks that rationalize getting welfare in their old age by saying they "paid into it" for all those years :)

shamus


It was supposed to be for retirement and yes, I've paid into it many tens of thousands. Am I not entitled to reap some of the rewards of my labors? If not then why should I go on supporting a government incapable of managing my money properly?



Well said Rolex. I think you may be optimistic about 2050 though.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 06:01:54 PM by AKIron »
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Offline Shamus

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Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
If not then why should I go on supporting a government incapable of managing my money properly?

 


Because if you don't they will take all your stuff and put you in jail :)

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