My input education, and why kids don't care

[Trell]

Originally posted by lazs2
well... it is a proven fact that private schools can teach the vast majority... it is a fact that public schools do a poor job.

I would agree that a motivated individual with good parents willing to stay home and teach would do better than either... that is fine.. the options should be...

home school or voucher.

As for blaming the parents..  pure bs.    For a teacher to have a child 2/3 of their waking life and then blame the parents because the kid is not learning is silly.

lazs

All private schools show is that if you spend enough money you can create a school that can keep those poor people out.
private schools do well because they can restrict who go to it.

In Home schooling parents take a very active role in there child's education. They know how the kids acts and can completely customize the learning for them.

[lazs2]

poor people are dumb people?  or.. middle class people have better values?

Is that what you are saying?  if that is true then... of course we should get rid of public schools.. the people making change for me in fast food places and most stores can't do math... how much dumber would they be if they simply did not go to any school at all and had a 6 month training where they worked?

Maybe some people should not go to school.   If nothing else tho... they should not drag down the majority.

lazs

[Motherland]

Originally posted by lazs2
poor people are dumb people?  or.. middle class people have better values?

Is that what you are saying?  if that is true then... of course we should get rid of public schools.. the people making change for me in fast food places and most stores can't do math... how much dumber would they be if they simply did not go to any school at all and had a 6 month training where they worked?

Maybe some people should not go to school.   If nothing else tho... they should not drag down the majority.

lazs

So, your saying we should step back 1000 years, and only the rich should be able to attend school? Thats pretty f**ked up. There are plenty of people who have come out of a poor background and become very succesful in life.

I guess free education is Communist and all that is Communist is inherently bad. Thats your reasoning, right?

[T0J0]

Originally posted by Trell
I don't see a problem with public schools at all
I think of you look at the average WHITE American.  I think you will see a great increase in there education over the past 50 to 100 years..  I think they learn better now then they have ever before.


Once you start mixing in other cultures is where I think the system breaks down.

Just means the other People need to learn to integrate more.

Most teens have always cared a lot about social things about school, if they didn't then football and other sports would never have anyone watching them.

Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton will be here in awhile to throw down a card...

[Dichotomy]

Laz I still place the majority of the burden for a childs education on the parent regardless of if they choose to send a private, public, or home, school, enviornment.  

Sure the teacher has them for most of the day but a large percentage of the kids they've got are denoted by my previous example.   A large majority of 'parents' these days do not actively deal with their children unless it's to discipline them most likely for tearing mom or dads attention off of the boob tube or perhaps an online game.  

It doesn't suprise me that 90% of the people I know that wanted to be teachers tried it and decided on a career change after a couple of years.  There's way too many little Johnnies and their half involved parents to make it rewarding any more.   Pretty soon you start seeing all the kids as little Johnnies and educating becomes a job.  You just do it and go home.

Now I grant that I'm painting with a broad brush here but it's my observations and my conclusions base on those observations that have led me to these opinions.  Everybody has to do what they think is best for their kids.  My choices are, obviously, my choices.

Trell

I really don't think the race card has any place in this discussion.  If I'm wrong then my apologies in advance.

edit: ya I know that last paragraph reads like poorly translated hyroglyphics

[Trell]

Originally posted by Dichotomy
Laz I still place the majority of the burden for a childs education on the parent regardless of if they choose to send a private, public, or home, school, enviornment.  

Sure the teacher has them for most of the day but a large percentage of the kids they've got are denoted by my previous example.   A large majority of 'parents' these days do not actively deal with their children unless it's to discipline them most likely for tearing mom or dads attention off of the boob tube or perhaps an online game.  

It doesn't suprise me that 90% of the people I know that wanted to be teachers tried it and decided on a career change after a couple of years.  There's way too many little Johnnies and their half involved parents to make it rewarding any more.   Pretty soon you start seeing all the kids as little Johnnies and educating becomes a job.  You just do it and go home.

Now I grant that I'm painting with a broad brush here but it's my observations and my conclusions base on those observations that have led me to these opinions.  Everybody has to do what they think is best for their kids.  My choices are, obviously, my choices.

Trell

I really don't think the race card has any place in this discussion.  If I'm wrong then my apologies in advance.

edit: ya I know that last paragraph reads like poorly translated hyroglyphics

Trying to point out a rich vs... poor divide,   Wealthy people as a whole put a much greater emphasis on school because they know it is the gate way into making money and bettering your self.  They push there children into learning, by spending more time with them to make them learn or by sending them to Private school to get them away from the kids that don't have parents that care about education.
Pointing out White Americans is easier because they are a greater % in the middle class then other races. or newer immigrates.
Culture is the difference,  But closer to the culture of rich vs... poor.

I Think most of the burden must go to parents.  not public school.

[Dichotomy]

I disagree.  

Let's take my wifes family for instance.  When they were young the 3 kids and mom and dad lived for a while in a gulfstream trailer.  Dad was a sharecropper (no kidding) and mom worked a variety of jobs.  We're talking POOR people with every excuse to turn out as scumbags.  Dad worked his rear off, became a Ford master tech, and they fought, clawed, and scratched their way up.  

She Devil should have gone to college and can outspell and generally out think me.  Her younger brother joined the Army and became a Korean language specialist.  He's highly decorated and trying to get in the green to gold program and just sold his house in Hawaii for 5 times the value of mine.  Her younger brother just came home today (YAY) from his second tour in Iraq and is planning to enroll in college I believe.

I came from a fairly upper middle class family.  My parents were pretty non involved.  Dad travelled a LOT and mom worked so I was your typical latch key kid. When I was in my 20's I was a first class scumbag and probably should have wound up in prison. Sure my parents gave lip service to education but they really weren't involved.

She Devils mom and dad were really involved in everything their kids were doing.  

I think it really boils down to the approach by the parents.

[Trell]

Well that would make you an exception i believe.   I am betting if you picked a random town somewhere, the better students would come from more affluent parents and drop outs would come from poorer familys.

impossible to be 100% true.  But on average.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Oogly50

Allright, so we all know who's at fault here...  Society?  Or the students...  

Neither.

Its the fault of the parents.

We don't have enough parents who are ready and willing to drive a boot up their kids arse.

My rules regarding school are simple.
Bring me the grades.
Bring me the grades and I will ease off on almost anything within reason.
Bedtime, house work. Etc.
But bring me the grades.

I do not tolerate poor grades.
I'm using the same things on my daughter I used on my son.
When it comes to schoolwork I borrowed a line from the Cane Mutiny.
"Exultance is standard, Standard is substandard and substandard will NOT be tolerated. THAT I assure you."

Grades are only allowed to go up, Not down and as my son discovered Whoa be unto you if you go from an "A" to a "B".

Two weeks ago we received a call about my daughter not handing in homework. After talking to her about it I told her plain and simple.
"Do not think that because your a girl I wont kick your arse because I will prove you wrong"
I then gave her the same choice I gave my son.
"You can either get the grades in school and go to college. Or you will join the Marines.
Either way you will learn how to do something."

Must have had an effect. Lasts series of tests the other day were all A's and B's

[bj229r]

How many of your friends have BOTH parents at work till 7p every night?...MAn...I sound like Dr Laura here...I grew up in late '60's early 70's, and ALL my friends had a MOM who knew damn near everything they did....not any more. (Of course, we ALSO did stuff like...GO OUTSIDE...PLAY SPORTS...etc)...WHEN is the las time anyone here saw a buncha kids playin football or baseball in na empty field, that wasn't some kinda soccer-mom-organised thing?

[Dichotomy]

Originally posted by Trell
Well that would make you an exception i believe.   I am betting if you picked a random town somewhere, the better students would come from more affluent parents and drop outs would come from poorer familys.

impossible to be 100% true.  But on average.

Completely agree there are exceptions in every group but my original point is that parents who are not involved with their kids and staying on top of their education, behavior, etc.., are the ones that have the kids that wind up with issues when they get older.  So, to me, this isn't about race or income level.  It's about being involved with your kids in every aspect of their lives.  

I like Dreidocks approach personally and agree.  If my kid regularly brings home A's and B's or shows me where he's struggling with a subject in time for me to help you or get help and I'll accept a C and doesn't have any discipline issues at school and I'll give him a lot of latitude in other areas.  If they're dogging it at school then the latitude diminishes to the point of working from the time they get home to the time they go to bed.  In fact three of my kids are currently doing just that because of repeated rules infractions by all three of them.  I don't like it because I have to supervise and make sure they're doing what they were told to do and not slacking in some hidden corner of the house.  But they know the rules and they all agree that they broke them repeatedly.  I also don't like it because I like for my kids to have what they want and bust my butt to give it to them.  There's a lot of my hard earned money sitting quietly disabled because three of them chose to be knuckleheads.

Just my opinions though.

[lazs2]

where are you guys getting that with a voucher system only the rich would go to school?

here in kalifornia public schools cost 10 k a year per student.. we could educate 2 kids in private school for that.

I am saying that let ANYONE who has the desire and the ability to learn go to the school of their choice.

It is you guys who are implying that poor kids are too stupid to go to any school that doesn't lower the standards down to the dumbest in the group.

Then you blame the parents.. the parents are working to support the lazy teachers and their part time job with full time salary... the teachers have the kids all day...

In home schooling... who helps the kids with the homework?  well... no one.. the parents who homeschool spend less time teaching than teachers do with your kids.. they just do it better.    

As we get more and more 3rd world morons and gangbangers into the public school system it will have lower and lower standards... and in the end... after 12 to 15 years if teaching... the teachers will blame the parents or.... not enough money for computers or something for why the guy who "graduates" can't read.

Why he can't make change at the local burger king he works at.

lazs