Author Topic: 1984 in Britain again......  (Read 1139 times)

Offline lazs2

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2007, 09:29:58 AM »
yep... 6 months a year if you count holidays and summer.

I would rather pay the teachers overtime that hear em whine.

What other job do you get to claim that you are working at home and have that be a reason to not work 6 months of the year?

If they are doing overtime then make em do it at work.   then we will see just how long it really takes to grade those papers.    I am willing to pay then overtime for work done at the school and justified... the overtime must be paid for over 40 hours a week and only after 2000 hrs a year are accumulated (sick time counts as does a few weeks vacation)

I am sick of them telling me how hard they work when no one is watching.

lets get it out in the open.. who knows how well they are doing?  if we actually made em stay at the facility to do their overtime we could see who was doing a good job and who was not.

As it is... even the worst teacher can claim to be working 24 hours a day.

lazs

Offline Angus

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2007, 05:48:44 PM »
Having young daugters that soon will go to school, things like these give me the chill...
If they are well educated before they are there, they are going to be bored.
If they are under the bar, they are ... under the bar.

Anyway, IMHO, a lot of a child's education comes (and should indeed) from the parents. When I was 5, I knew that London was in England, while an incredible number of U.S. Highschool graduates do not! HTF!!!!????
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Offline Shuckins

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2007, 06:43:13 PM »
Lazs, you've taken the right step in adopting an active role in the education of your granddaughter.  Private schools offer a viable, yet much maligned alternative to the overburdened public school system.

I taught for 27 years in public schools.  One of the biggest problems that we faced as educators was parental apathy.  Many just don't give a damn.  Try teaching the children of a parent who has such an attitude and you'll soon get an inkling of the sort of frustration that a dedicated teacher faces.

A surprisingly large number of teachers do NOT belong to the NEA or any other teachers' union.  The NEA does NOT speak for me, especially on the political front.  The NEA often throws up barriers against the adoption of meaningful and badly needed changes in the education system.

For much of my career I was fortunate enough to teach at a small rural district which was well funded by local taxes, voted in by a citizenry that believed steadfastly in the worth of their little school.  It was killed off and forced into consolidation by the state's governor, Mike Huckabee, who believed that the state's educational system was top heavy with administration.  Bigger is better, don't ya'll know?!  

Dred, many of the problems of the American educational system lie in the gigantic size of its schools and districts.  How much individual attention and discipline training can a teacher give a student in a school that is the size of a small town?  In such a system, children with problems fall through the cracks.

Certainly, our schools share part of the blame for the decline in academic achievement.  They have their share of deadbeat employees and superfluous and lightweight academic programs.  Yet, Swoop was dead on when he said that the list of contributary factors was very long.  

My friends, I earned my money;  driving buses, breaking up fights, counseling troubled students, attending idiotic and redundant workshops, dealing with smart-ass parents and their punk kids, grading mountainous stacks of homework and tests, preparing my classes for state-sponsored written exams (Thank you SO much, governor Huckabee for the Benchmark), trying to catch students rumored to be fornicating on the school grounds, sponsoring clubs, running the clock at basketball games after hours during the school week and for end of season tournaments.  

I've retired from public school teaching.  Now I work trying to educate juvenile delinquents, where the problems are compounded.  With my retirement check and my bi-weekly salary I'm finally earning enough to catch up on paying off debts that have been hanging over my head for years.

Yet, I'd rather take a beating from three irate Irishmen that listen to people who have never walked my path whining about teacher salaries.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.  Give up your high-paying jobs and spend a few years teaching if you want to find out what it's really all about.

Regards, Shuckins

Offline texasmom

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2007, 06:47:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
My mom was a teacher. She was underpaid, kept working with students well after the "end of the day" was always writing lesson plans or grading papers after coming home and cooking dinner and she often used her own money to buy supplies or books to enhance her class. Not to mention the time spent on PTA meetings, parent conferences........  Teaching is NOT a 9-5 job.


I've never met a teacher to ever worked anything close to straight school hours.  Actually, I met one... and she hated people (not just children, all people in general) ~ I could never understand why she was a teacher.

Anyhow, teachers are incredible.

*edit* oh, and on top of teaching the kids, they end up managing the undisciplined ones who's parents don't give a crap about how their kids actually behave.  Then they have to put up with all the crap the parents dish out when the administration doles out consequences for the crap the kids get in trouble for (trouble which wouldn't have taken place to begin with if the parents enforced or instilled any discipline)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 06:50:47 PM by texasmom »
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Offline midnight Target

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2007, 07:40:03 PM »
Just because I think she deserves it...


Mom never taught in a public school. She always felt as though she had more control over her students in a private (catholic) school. This also explains why I said she was underpaid. She had the reputation of being the toughest teacher in the school and noone talked back to her twice. She was recognized nationally as a top Elementary teacher. She passed away at age 58 and there were over 600 people at her funeral.

Offline AKIron

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2007, 09:31:27 PM »
Vouchers is the answer in the US and likely elsewhere schools are government run. Allowing a family (that couldn't financially otherwise) to choose a school that performs will raise the standard. Competition is good. Anyone who denies that is simply lazy and doesn't want to compete, imo.
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Offline eagl

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2007, 09:43:09 PM »
As long as "they" (teacher's unions and politicians) refuse to accept that just under 50% of the population are below average, our schools will continue to get worse.  There MUST be stratification and targeted learning objectives that are based on actual abilities rather than arbitrary normative goals.  Without these targeted objectives, slower kids become alienated and "graduate" with no practical skills, faster kids become bored, cynical, are held back, and "graduate" with a fraction of the abilities they are capable of, and the rich kids go to private schools and "graduate" with a significant educational advantage but no concept of how to deal with the common folk.

That's true in both the US and the UK.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Vulcan

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2007, 10:03:23 PM »
heheheheh shuckins said forrrrrrrrrrrnicating.

Offline SteveBailey

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2007, 02:28:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JBA

Meanwhile our kids are cuddlinghunkes when it comes to reading and righting.



Please.. somebody... anybody tell me I am not the only one who laughed hysterically at the irony in this statement.   :rofl

Tell me I'm not the only one who gets it.

Offline texasmom

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2007, 02:54:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SteveBailey
Please.. somebody... anybody tell me I am not the only one who laughed hysterically at the irony in this statement.  Tell me I'm not the only one who gets it.
 :)
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Offline Shuckins

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2007, 06:26:33 AM »
Here, let me do my teacher thingy:

'cuddlinghunkes' should be spelled 'handsomehunkes'.

'Righting' should be spelled 'writing'.


Bwaahaahaahaahaa!>

Aahh me!

Offline Toad

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Re: 1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2007, 08:19:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Swoop
Last night teachers claimed young people were being let down by a "flawed, exam-based" education system.



Well, sure. Just quit giving any exams at all and the problem goes away.

Good solution; I'm not suprised it took teachers to find it and propose it though.
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Offline midnight Target

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2007, 09:22:38 AM »
Actually "Bwaahaahaahaahaa" is spelled with 9 a's.

Offline lazs2

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2007, 09:51:08 AM »
shukins...you may have noticed that I said that with vouchers rural schools would still probly be mostly public schools and that... rural public schools were not the horror that urban ones were.

That being said... you belonging to the NEA or not.. it is a powerful union that DOES represent most teachers and it is strongly against any choice and do nothing but pass blame and social engineering of our kids.. they vote liberal socialist as a block.  

Earn your money?  maybe.  I would rather not take your word for it tho... or anyones on any job..  You admit that many teachers were a waste but.. the NEA won' t let us get rid of em.. in kalifornia... only one in 900 is ever fired.

Teachers are not more honest or better than everyone else.. they need to work 8 hours a day... if they can't finish their work in that time then stay over and finish.. they would get overtime when authorized.. If there is too much overtime then it will be easy to see why.. the teachers that can't do the job should be let go and... if all are having a hard time keeping up then the school year needs to be extended with shorter days (for the kids not the teachers).

I don't believe anyone regardless of profession who says that they are working thousands of free hours a year at home.  I don't want that in any case.

let em do their work at the jobsite like everyone else.

As for "taking an interest"  if you can't teach a kid basic reading and simple math in 12 years of having them most of their waking life... it is you who is to blame..

How bout you let us teach our kids morals and about life and you teach em to read?   then we will know who to blame for what.

lazs

Offline Maverick

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1984 in Britain again......
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2007, 11:15:48 AM »
There are many who seem to think their responsibility for the education of their offspring is served by only dumping the kid off in front of the school. This is not and never has been true. The responsibility for the kid is the parents job. Education is just one aspect. You cannot expect a teacher or school to  housebreak, socialize, provide a moral base, feed, monitor health as well as educate the child. You might think this is not the case that people bring kids and dump them on the school grounds who are not even potty trained but it is true, I've seen it.

If you as a parent are not concerned enough to look over the kids work, grades, attendance and show up for parent teacher conferences, why would you think your kid gives any more of a damn about their education than you do? They will mimic the home environment they come from. The school has them for 6 to 7 hours a day about 5 of which is in class. The rest of the time is based on what kind of environment they live in. The school does not provide a stability in their lives, the home does.

One of the biggest advantages a private (catholic or other) school has is that the parents care about the education for their child. They demonstrate it in picking the school, being involved and making sure the kid does what they are supposed to do. That means they also support a structured and calm environment in the classroom and will not tolerate their kid creating a scene day in and day out several times a day. It's their money being used to educate their kid. Often parents seem to feel free is best simply because it costs them nothing out of pocket. They value the education for what they feel it cost them, nothing. The kid gets the message there too. It cost nothing and is worth nothing so there is no reason to do or learn anything.

Bottom line, if you think just having the kid in the building ends your responsibility for their education, the kid won't think they have to do anything more than that either. They will show as much care and concern about it as you do. If the parent does not care about their kids education, neither will the kid.

Basing an education on grades is one thing. There has been talk about basing teacher pay on "performance". If you are going to base the pay on one item, what do you think the teacher is going to concentrate on? If it's "passing the grade" do you think they would even think of holding a non performer back? If the teachers job is based on the exam grades, what do think they will do to keep their job? I can guarantee it won't be to hold kids to actual performance standards and lessons will look very much like the state standardized tests.

It's a shame you can't grade parents the same way.
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