Author Topic: Der Grosse Schlag patch (Read 15193 times)

Have · « **Reply #30 on:** February 15, 2008, 01:26:51 AM »

So, what's the status of DGS patches? The scenario itself was THE best scenario I have flown in.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 15, 2008, 06:40:55 AM »

Well the patches done so far do not represent both sides of the event. I have had numerous PMs about this fact, but people seem unable to voice their own concerns here so I guess I just have for them.

BlauK · « **Reply #32 on:** February 15, 2008, 07:08:17 AM »

Fencer,
do you care to elaborate on the matter?

Any logo or sign or patch can never include everyone's experience of any event. It is always a compromise. At best it can communicate the general nature of the event, a location, some forces involved, some example of planes or equipment used or some sample of action in focus.

What would be your reciepe for a patch suitable for those numerous people contacting you? You know, the patch should be as simple as possible. If you fill it with small details, nothing will stand out an the whole will turn out as a mess.

Why are they contacting you anyways??? Why aren't those numerous people voicing their concerns here? Confused....

IMHO the idea in the DGS patch is valid, some details and colors could be developed further though. The text is pretty tightly packed for example, and flak bursts are too numerous and small. Maybe leave one or 2 planes away, remove transparency in the gun sight, add more contrast between the gray and light blue areas... something like that.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 15, 2008, 08:07:40 PM »

Because I seem to be the "goto" person for the Allies on the scenario for some reason. Go figure.

The comments, which have come in dribs and drabs over weeks, resolve around the fact the patch soley consists of a B-17 in a German Gunsight. I assume putting burning factories or 109s in K-14 gunsights would not be greeted well by the Luftwaffe players, can't say I blame either viewpoint.

I guess they want something suitable to show both side's view of the event, not the LW experience only. Can't say I disagree with them, I had sort of blown the comments off as I could personally go without being involved in this as I have been involved in the whole darn thing from day one on every conceiveable level. Others need to contribute and I have had it with the drama on the whole event.

I have voiced their concerns and I am done with it. Either take these comments and adjust or not.

Good Luck with it.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 15, 2008, 11:17:10 PM »

Did this in about 20 minutes. Yes I know it's a 109E, but I used a profile I did myself just to illustrate it. And yes the 51B is backwards. again I used a profile i did and flipped it just to illustrate the point.

I was the 38 GL in DGS so I'm not picking favorites, but our CO was also the 4th FG co and the 109 is still the better known LW fighter as is the 17 as a bomber.

Can't please everyone but I think it's simple and to the point without taking sides. The battle between the LW fighters and Allied Fighters with the bombers as the center piece.

I figure some of the good graphics guys might get the idea and run with it. Doesn't favor either side.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 16, 2008, 01:30:33 AM »

OK a redo

Just the black outlines of the fighters too.

You get the idea

BlauK · « **Reply #36 on:** February 16, 2008, 06:49:04 AM »

Ok,
so the original suggestions do not show the part of the allied fighter pilots

If you wanted it to show what actually happened in the frames, yes you could sketch one with allied bombers and fighters flying together in beautiful formation without any axis in sight.... and yes, some great flaming factories in the background

However, that is not what the scenario "Der Grosse Schlag" was about. That could represent just about any bomb run during the late war. DGS was about LW's attempt to form a huge counterattack against the bombers, does that ring a bell? Shouldn't the design in that light picture a huge LW formation?

LOL, I never heard any LW fighter pilot complaining about the BoB patch that their 109s and their escorting action were not shown. Not even any Allied pilot complained about the missing Spits and Hurricanes.

I suggest a simple excercise: Answer in one sentence, what made DGS different from other fights of that time? What was DGS about? Then tell how it could be pictured as simply as possible so that it could be recognized without any additional text. Or if you are up to it, draw one.

And Fencer, please, send those numerous guys here to voice their opinions. The scenario is long gone and so are its chains of command

Otherwise it only sounds like you are trying to add more weight to your own opinion...

BlauK · « **Reply #37 on:** February 16, 2008, 06:58:17 AM »

Guppy's proposal has some merits, e.g. I like the stronger colors, but I am pretty sure Brooke will tell you that planes that small will not be recognizable. All the black stuff in the middle will instead form a swastika which is missing the top left peg.

Also, consider if you replaced e.g. the ami planes and symbol with soviet ones. What event would it symbolize?
Or if you replaced the LW side with Japanese, what would be the event?

IMHO, this is a pretty generic show of some Am. escorted bomber action against Germans.

BlauK · « **Reply #38 on:** February 16, 2008, 07:10:49 AM »

With any logos it is often quite useful to check them out in a smaller size. What are the details that will still be distinguishable? Which ones will become meaningless? etc.

On these ones we can see how on the right the fighter planes are difficult to recognize and how the blue color is too dark. On the left the flak bursts get mixed up with smaller bombers.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 16, 2008, 07:54:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BlauK
And Fencer, please, send those numerous guys here to voice their opinions. The scenario is long gone and so are its chains of command Otherwise it only sounds like you are trying to add more weight to your own opinion...

Sorry good leadership has lasting effects.

I understand what you are saying. Which is why I had held off saying anything. And why I tried to get you to understand I don't really don't want to be part of the decision process. Yet if I wanted to reflect my own opinion I would do the bloody patch as Brooke asked me too. My opinion on a patch should not need more emphasis. I designed the scenario.

Hopefully some of them will post. I have deleted the comments as my PM box keeps filling up for some reason.

BlauK · « **Reply #40 on:** February 16, 2008, 08:29:13 AM »

Maybe you should give it a go... like you kind of implied over 3 months ago

It would be kind of interesting to see your patch reflect what you thought DGS was about.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 16, 2008, 08:41:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BlauK
Maybe you should give it a go... like you kind of implied over 3 months ago

It would be kind of interesting to see your patch reflect what you thought DGS was about.

Yeah I thought I would as a favor to Brooke, but I had work intervene and was burned out on the whole scenario scene.

As I said, I think it best if someone else handles it.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 16, 2008, 03:49:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BlauK

With any logos it is often quite useful to check them out in a smaller size. What are the details that will still be distinguishable? Which ones will become meaningless? etc.

On these ones we can see how on the right the fighter planes are difficult to recognize and how the blue color is too dark. On the left the flak bursts get mixed up with smaller bombers.

The blue represents the blue on the star and bar while obviously the red represents the background on a German flag of the time with the aircraft markings.

I wouldn't change the blue for that reason on what I suggested. I suppose the fighters could just be the noses and cockpits entering in to the patch like I did in the first one but just black like the second. They'd be a bit bigger then.

What is the size of the actual patch?

Krusty · « **Reply #43 on:** February 16, 2008, 04:06:42 PM »

About 3 inches.

Try making the planes white instead of black. It's too close to the blue.

EDIT: Nope, that won't work. How about making them grey/silver?

Have · « **Reply #44 on:** February 18, 2008, 04:24:02 AM »

Perhaps the patch should have just one huge P51 in it so 'Fencer's guys' would be happy with it?

Like the Rangoon '42 patch here:

One of the best scenario patches ever, imho.
But hey, how can that be? I was flying a Zero in that scenario and I can't find one from the patch

Anyway, I'd remove the flak bursts from the original DGS patch proposal. The second proposal has better colors in it, but the black plane silhouettes can't really be seen. The patch would be better without them.

I'd like to see a third proposal coming right from 'Fencer's guys' and see what they have in their mind. Speak now or remain silent forever