Author Topic: Panic Attacks  (Read 1224 times)

Offline SirLoin

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Panic Attacks
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2007, 04:44:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mr No Name
This does sound more like a severe hypoglycemic attack (DANGEROUSLY LOW) sugar level.  



The paramedic who sampled blood said it was through the roof(skyhigh sugar level)

as you can see i'm confused about this low/high blodd sugar thing...must be the demeral hangover
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Offline Shaky

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Panic Attacks
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2007, 06:47:25 PM »
A blood sugar reading of 17 is very, very low. Anything below 80 is getting dangerous, and anyting abouve 240 is getting a bit high, with readings over 300 putting you in danger of ketoacidosis.

Don't forget, your blood sugar would be high because of insufficient insulin being available to transport the glucose into the cell for metabolism. In other words, your sugar is sky high because your cells are starving...they aren't getting the sugar inside the cell. This causes metabolism to switch to anaerobic, causing a buildup of all kindsa nasty stuff in the tissues, incuding high ketones and high levels of lactic acid. This builds up SLOWLY, over hours or days typically. The paramedic typically cannot reverse this in the field, since it requires graduated levels of insulin and fluids over the course of several hours. Tachycardia (rapid heart rate) occurs here as a result of dehydration, as the body tries to rebalance itself.

On the other hand, hypoglycemia of the extent you described (17 mg/dl) typically only occurs in a diabetic who has taken his insulin, causing him to burn his blood sugar off, but has not eaten to replace that sugar. Its characterized by rapid decrease in level of conciousness, irrationality, and falling unconcious. This occurs in minutes to a couple of hours. This is easily reversed in the field by the admistration of glucose by IV...the hard part is usually getting the IV, since these guys can fight like they're on PCP! A patient who is alert and talking, but who is also hypoglycemic, would typically be corrected orally (orange juice with a buncha table sugar mixed in).

The point is, absent further information, neither of these sounds like what you had going on. A sudden onset of a heart rate of 140, without strenuous exercise, is cause for concern, but I've seen anxiety attacks drive it higher. What did the medic give you IV? Was it valium or ativan to calm you down?
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Offline Maverick

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Panic Attacks
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2007, 07:38:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
The paramedic who sampled blood said it was through the roof(skyhigh sugar level)

as you can see i'm confused about this low/high blodd sugar thing...must be the demeral hangover


Perhaps your memory of the reading is in error. A level of 17 is extremely low anything over 200 is very high.
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Offline Scatcat

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Panic Attacks
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2007, 09:29:54 PM »
go see a doctor and get it checked out

Offline LePaul

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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2007, 09:46:14 PM »
Can't say I've had one of those....I did have some serious allergy woes 2 summers ago that finally got addressed.  Allergy testing is a very good thing!

Hope you're doing better, that doesn't sound like something fun at all.

Heal fast !

Offline Halo

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Panic Attacks
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2007, 10:26:36 PM »
From my experience and researching the topic, panic attacks often are caused by stress.  Which can result from or lead to low self esteem, agoraphobia (fear of going out into public places), and other unpleasantries.  

A panic attack once took me by surprise as I was returning home after driving my youngest daughter to the airport to return to college.  I thought everything was fine.  No premonition of anything.  

I was driving south in the usual heavy traffic, going 70 mph in the middle of three lanes on Interstate 95 south of Washington.  Suddenly I started getting tunnel vision and feeling dizzy and weak.  There was nowhere to go except try to keep straight and not hit anyone.  

I'd never had a feeling like that.  I don't think I was clammy or sweaty.  Just everything closing in.  It was like quickly dimming a light to maybe a third of its brightness, then hovering between stability and further decline.

I slowed a little as best I could and prayed a lot.  Fortunately my limbs continued to function.  At interstate speed, the attack apparently lasted a couple miles and a couple minutes.  

Fortunately I remained minimally functional and was able to slow down and make my way to the right lane, which wasn't that much better since that's where the beltway merged with the interstate.  

When I finally escaped the interstate I felt a little better and realized I was close to a hospital, so I drove to the emergency entrance.  By the time I got there I was feeling fairly normal.  The docs checked me over and found nothing wrong.  They tactfully suggested I should consider seeing a shrink.

I eventually self-diagnosed myself as depressed and started trying to lighten up.  The best advice I found was purposely looking for comedy books and films.  Laugh.  Escape from focusing on self and perceived self-failings.  
 
Humor and humility finally got me through that.  Might have been part of middle age crisis, middle age crazy.
 
Panic attacks can be different things to different people.  Try to stay calm and think through your situation.  Could be mental or physical or some of both.  Work through it, keep the faith, and grow from yet another life experience.

Incidentally, eventually I realized this could have been a TIA (transient ischemic attack).  But I don't think so.  I had a bonafide TIA years later that briefly gave me blurred vision, slurred speech, and impaired use of right arm and right leg.  

The wife drove me to the hospital on that one.  First time I knew I would not be able to drive.  By the time we got to the emergency room, symptoms were gone.  But docs concluded that I had a TIA and I've been on one aspirin a day therapy ever since.

That was about 20 years ago.  Everything fine since then.  I'm grateful.  While I don't like revealing personal problems like this, when I see posts with people looking for information about similar experiences to help them work through their problems, I feel compelled to respond.

This is one of the great side benefits of Aces High, a close family of people with similar interests who share the good and the bad in hope of helping each other.  For which I thank the many of you whose posts have been so interesting and helpful to me over the years.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 10:47:41 PM by Halo »
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Offline SirLoin

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Panic Attacks
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2007, 10:27:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Perhaps your memory of the reading is in error.



Could be...i was in & out of it...Seeing my doctor next week.My Dad is diabetic,going to have a chat with him.

I'll get checked out by the Ford plant's doctor on monday before they let me back on the line anyway..so i'll post the numbers then..but i distinctly remember medic saying "he's hypoglycimic..blood sugur 17"
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 10:33:45 PM by SirLoin »
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Offline Slash27

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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2007, 10:42:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Did they give you an oral paste? That's what para's carry in the states now apparently. Its a high glucose sugar-based paste to help elevate your blood sugar levels.


Its not used as often as Dextrose through an IV. Usually the person is not with it enough to understand to actually swallow the paste if the medics are there.

Quote
Originally posted by Shaky
A blood sugar reading of 17 is very, very low. Anything below 80 is getting dangerous,  



Below 60

Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2007, 10:43:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shaky
What did the medic give you IV? Was it valium or ativan to calm you down?


Yes,was given an IV when the para's arrived.They didn't tell me what the sedative was.in fact i wasn't told i was given anything.They just asked if i was on meds(neg) & if i had any allergies to medication.
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Offline LePaul

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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2007, 11:25:11 PM »
Thanks some really good info, Halo.

It seems like a lot of this BBS is either under 21 or 35 and up  :)  We're an odd mix and posts like yours are enlightening for me.  I'm 38 and man, I have days I just wonder where the time is going!  I dont think I've had any of those mid-life meltdowns yet but your suggestions of levity, humor and destressing is very important.  The best habbit I got into was the daily gym one.  All my stress evaporates during a good cardio workout plus chatting with the friends I've made there.  I really look forward to those visits.

Offline kotrenin

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Panic Attacks
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2007, 02:30:30 AM »
I'm a medic in Chi-town.  
 As far as what happened, go see your doctor.  You seem very confused about the situation and its hard to tell what is fact and what is an illusion brought on by delirium.  Both low and high sugar levels could cause these symptoms.  I have never seen an anxiety attack cause low or high blood sugar however (not saying it couldn't happen, just never seen it.)

next

Oral Glucose:  I almost never give it.
        1. It is a pain in the butt to replace at the hospitals ( they never carry it.)
        2. the Pt must be awake enough to follow commands and swallow and not be combative.
        3. It takes forever to take effect. (I actually had a pt go down 10 points after I gave oral glucose, before it went back up 25 minuets later.)
If I'm going to give a diabetic pt something orally it is going to be juice with several tablespoons of sugar mixed in, and this is only with my regulars when they are at home, because I know they are going to refuse transport to the hospital.  Otherwise I'm starting a line and giving D50 (dextrose 50%, comes in a blue box with a big honking 50ml vial inside.)

If your sugar had been 17 you would have been completely incoherent most likely unconscious.  I've only had 1 pt ever, out of hundreds, that was still conscious and talking with a sugar less than 25 and I swear the glucometer had to have been wrong.  You may have still been able to hear what was going on around you although you probably couldn't comprehend any of it at the time ( I've had a few patients tell me they remember what I was saying while they were "unconscious",  I even had them repeat my conversations with my partner.)  If you have a family history of hypoglycemia there is a really good chance you could develop it.

If your sugar was elevated they would have started a line and given you only normal saline, which is what comes in the IV bag to begin with (there are other IV fluids but most ambulance just have .9 normal saline,) to dilute the sugar in your system.  This also takes a long time and they would have wanted to take you to the hospital.  They wouldn't have given anything to calm you down.  You did this naturally.  The Valium is for seizures, the morphine is for chest pain and pain management in trauma and burn patients.  We do not carry psych meds, we carry restraints.

Normal blood sugar levels are above 60 and depending when you got your medic license below 120.  120 is not a hard-line number we don't really start sweating it until you are over 200, even then with regular patients over 250.  Some athletes are normally between 50 and 60.

In order to sign a refusal of treatment and/or transport you must have a blood sugar of 60 or above,  be alert and oriented x3 (person, place, date,) deny the use of drugs or alcohol and not appear to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol.  If you do not fit all the criteria by law we have to take you to the hospital.  If you still refuse we put you in protective custody and bring the cops with us to the hospital.  ( you have no idea how badly this makes my job suck, almost everybody drinks.  The hospitals are the new "drunk tank".)
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Offline SteveBailey

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Re: Panic Attacks
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2007, 02:43:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
anyone else ever had one?

Last nite i was at work on the assembly line,not stressed out at all(was listening to Neil Young's "Tonite's The Night") when i started feeling faint..hands,feet & face went numb and the HR was 140.i could barely speak.

i thought it was a heart attack and so did the plant medical staff..The paramedics arrived and measured my blood sugur at 17 and said i was hypoglycimic and gave me an IV that slowly lowered the heart rate(and sent me off into bumble-bee land...musta been some Demerol in there)

i had no chest pains so it was determined that it was a panic attack,and that 3 large coffee's might have been the cause.But i tell you,it scared the sheet outta me.

it also shut the Ford plant down for almost an hour(big $$ lost)

I'll be going back to work Monday but was wondering if anyone else has experienced something like this..and how did you explain it to those who had witnessed it.



Dude relax.   CT will be released in two weeks.   :D

Offline SirLoin

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Panic Attacks
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2007, 04:03:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by kotrenin


If your sugar had been 17 you would have been completely incoherent most likely unconscious....  


that i was in & out...hadn't had a beer in two days.

Thnx for the post...you ambulence dudes must have a high degree of mental toughness..i see you guys like to mingle with nurses..that was amusing..too say the least.
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Offline Kirin

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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2007, 08:02:54 AM »
Uhm... maybe we getting units mixed up here. I know it's very unusual still for the US but the SI (systeme internationale) unit for bloodsugar is mmol/l (which is roughly a factor x18).

So a bloodsugar of 17mmol/l (>300mg/dl) is roughly 3x times the normal value.

You must have met a modern paramedic there... ;)
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Offline SirLoin

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Panic Attacks
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2007, 10:34:45 AM »
Thnx for clearing that up..:)

Ya we use those units of measurement up here in Iglooland i guess.
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