Author Topic: BVR engagement over Aegean  (Read 709 times)

Offline eagl

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2007, 11:59:50 PM »
Although US pilots like to think of the AMRAAM as a death stick, it's well known that if you employ it incorrectly then it is no more effective than any other weapon employed incorrectly.

Not that I have any opinion on the validity of the reported incident, but it's way easier to say the other guy's jammer spoofed your missile than to admit that you suck and pooched away your shot.

If the incident in fact occurred, I bet both sides believed the sales brochures that came with their weapons and took bad shots.  But that's just my own wild speculative guess based on... well, based on some stuff I've done.

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Offline AquaShrimp

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2007, 02:26:31 AM »
I heard (second hand) that if an AMRAAM were jammed, it would then home in on the source of the jamming emission.

Edit: Found a source for that

"The AIM-120 also has a "home-on-jam" guidance mode to counter electronic jamming."

http://www.ewarbirds.org/amraam.html
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 02:28:38 AM by AquaShrimp »

Offline PanosGR

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2007, 05:20:06 AM »
Not that I have any opinion on the validity of the reported incident, but it's way easier to say the other guy's jammer spoofed your missile than to admit that you suck and pooched away your shot.

Its not my problem “witch is easier to say or admit”. I dont care.
If a missile strike the target or not, depends on a large number of factors. First, if the target is outgoing, which means punching his rocket and then disengage immediately –witch by the way this is the tactic- is quite difficult for the rocket to hit its target regardless  the aircraft has a self protection package or not. The best chance for a missile to reach its target is when this is forthcoming.


I heard (second hand) that if an AMRAAM were jammed, it would then home in on the source of the jamming emission.


This is true. AMRAAM has a HOJ capability. But the jammer, of the French self protection system ICMS has also other modes such as the “deception” mode, which is designed to mislead the upcoming rocket regarding the position of the target and not actually blind it. Now as far it concern the actuall HOJ capabilities  its not known the distance at which  the HOJ mode can start to lead the rocket to its target. I think that the HOJ starts to employ from the moment that the active seeker of the missile is on. Before that the missile moves inertially with navigational data from the radar of the aircraft. But if the aircraft radar “blinded” by the other’s guys jammer it may not be in position to provide accurate   data about the target’s location and therefore for the missile to reach the position where the active seeker or HOJ will employ and guide the AMRAAM in an autonomous operation to its target.

PS
Sorry about my poor English. Im still working on it to improve them.

Offline DiabloTX

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2007, 06:18:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by PanosGR
Not that I have any opinion on the validity of the reported incident, but it's way easier to say the other guy's jammer spoofed your missile than to admit that you suck and pooched away your shot.

Its not my problem “witch is easier to say or admit”. I dont care.
If a missile strike the target or not, depends on a large number of factors. First, if the target is outgoing, which means punching his rocket and then disengage immediately –witch by the way this is the tactic- is quite difficult for the rocket to hit its target regardless  the aircraft has a self protection package or not. The best chance for a missile to reach its target is when this is forthcoming.
 


Panos, Eagl is an F-15 driver in the USAF.  I'm fairly sure he has a little bit better first hand perspective than say, oh, anyone on this board about this subject.  I wouldn't dismiss his replies out of hand simply because they disagree with yours.

Z28 FTW!!!
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Offline Swoop

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2007, 06:51:03 AM »
heh, I was waiting for someone to mention that :-).


Offline Swager

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2007, 07:15:00 AM »
I heard Eagl was a bad shot!  :)

There are soooo many varients in modern day A/A combat.
Rock:  Ya see that Ensign, lighting the cigarette?
Powell: Yes Rock.
Rock: Well that's where I got it, he's my son.
Powell: Really Rock, well I'd like to meet him.
Rock:  No ya wouldn't.

Offline RTHolmes

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2007, 07:43:26 AM »
jeez those CFTs turn the prettiest jet fighter into a real minger, yeuuuch :(
71 (Eagle) Squadron

What most of us want to do is simply shoot stuff and look good doing it - Chilli

Offline Scatcat

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2007, 08:45:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mora
Geez... The inside of the intake is just white in colour...:rolleyes:


Shack

Offline LEADPIG

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2007, 11:51:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i am no expert, but doesnt that belly shot F16 have a white cover blocking the air intake?
fake picture?


The white you guys are refering to is just the inside of the air intakes painted white. I've seen then painted white on a ton of F-16's in pictures and also in person.

Offline indy007

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BVR engagement over Aegean
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2007, 02:32:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
Although US pilots like to think of the AMRAAM as a death stick, it's well known that if you employ it incorrectly then it is no more effective than any other weapon employed incorrectly.

Not that I have any opinion on the validity of the reported incident, but it's way easier to say the other guy's jammer spoofed your missile than to admit that you suck and pooched away your shot.

If the incident in fact occurred, I bet both sides believed the sales brochures that came with their weapons and took bad shots.  But that's just my own wild speculative guess based on... well, based on some stuff I've done.

:noid


What's the saying? If they were totally accurate they'd be called hittles, not missiles?