Author Topic: Explain this to me (Read 2111 times)

Rich46yo · « **Reply #30 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:24:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Donzo
If you understand the "who's computer see's" thing, why is it hard for you to understand that ramming intentionally is not a "great tactic"? If you ram intentionally YOUR front end is going to see the collision and assign it to you. How is that a tactic to damage the other guy?

OK, why would my computer "see it" and not his?

Im assuming hes in the cockpit looking foward. How else is he "his computer" going to look? Theres no F3 views with fighters.

Lusche · « **Reply #31 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:31:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rich46yo
OK, why would my computer "see it" and not his?

Because planes have different positions on each player's computer. Thats a result of lag - signals need time to travel through the internet, hence resulting in two different "realities"

What YOU see on your computer is NOT what I see on MINE. Please look at this pics:

Same situation, filmed by both players. Player A sees picture 1, player B sees picture 2.

Rich46yo · « **Reply #32 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:35:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by crockett
I'd have to give that nitwit credit for being able to hit all three of your planes in one ram. That is some skillful dweebery.

I wish I took films. I couldnt believe it.

Rino I dont know "why" anyone would intentionally "ram me". For that matter I dont 'know" "why" anyone would climb a tower with a HP rifle and shoot 30 people. Ive walked thru puddles of blood asking myself "why" anyone would shoot 4 people over a dice game.

Batfink thanks for posting but Im asking a particular question over a particular type of ram. I dont think the world is "out to get me". Well, maybe sometimes, but not today. Ive been rammed other ways and gotten the kill but never with this backwards ram. There is no way a bomber can ram an IB fighter from the rear. Or there shouldnt be, AH needs to change what see's what.

Thanks to the guys actually making a contribution to the thread. To the others? Isnt your mommie calling?

Rich46yo · « **Reply #33 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:37:22 PM »

OK Lusche. I get it. Its a crapshoot pure and simple right?

Donzo · « **Reply #34 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:46:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rich46yo
I wish I took films. I couldnt believe it.

Rino I dont know "why" anyone would intentionally "ram me". For that matter I dont 'know" "why" anyone would climb a tower with a HP rifle and shoot 30 people. Ive walked thru puddles of blood asking myself "why" anyone would shoot 4 people over a dice game.

Batfink thanks for posting but Im asking a particular question over a particular type of ram. I dont think the world is "out to get me". Well, maybe sometimes, but not today. Ive been rammed other ways and gotten the kill but never with this backwards ram. There is no way a bomber can ram an IB fighter from the rear. Or there shouldnt be, AH needs to change what see's what.

Thanks to the guys actually making a contribution to the thread. To the others? Isnt your mommie calling?

Look at Bronk's pictures.

Imagine this:

Top picture is my pc. I am the guy in the spit in the rear, you are the guy in the spit out front.

The bottom picture is your PC. Once again, I am the guy in the spit in the rear, you are the guy in the spit out front.

On my pc I clearly pulled up in time and did not hit the representation of your plane on my pc.

On your pc the representation of my plane did not pull up in time and hit the rear of your plane.

Donzo · « **Reply #35 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:47:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rich46yo
OK Lusche. I get it. Its a crapshoot pure and simple right?

Ok, this is either a troll or you cannot read or comprehend what you read.

Rich46yo · « **Reply #36 on:** November 21, 2007, 11:28:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Donzo
Ok, this is either a troll or you cannot read or comprehend what you read.

Either this is a fool or you cant comprehend when someone isnt talking to you.

Lusche there is no control of what computer sees what right? Its simply a question of lag and it could go either way correct?

Lusche · « **Reply #37 on:** November 21, 2007, 11:41:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rich46yo
Lusche there is no control of what computer sees what right? Its simply a question of lag and it could go either way correct?

Yes. And to bust another common myth: a connection with more lag hasn't any advantage or disadvantage in regards to collisions. Lag is always total, combined lag. Simplified spoken, if I have a lag of 200ms (from me to HTC server) and you have one of 50ms, combined lag is 250 ms, and it's the same for both of us.
It would be different if the server would detect & determine collisions, but luckily it doesn't.

FBplmmr · « **Reply #38 on:** November 21, 2007, 11:54:47 PM »

Rich what you computer sees does not mean what view you have open.. it really refers to the reality that your cartoon plane exists in. it is called your FE or front end.

because of lag, the reality my cartoon plane exists in shows everyone in slightly different positions than the reality your cartoon plane exists in does.

in my reality i may fly near you but not touch you..at the same time .. in your reality our planes may intersect.

if that occurs, your plane would take damage but mine would not. because the best we can do is fly to the 'reality' depicted on our own screen.
this can work opposite or both could take damage..but it most definitely not a crapshoot because each pilot is responsible for his reality.

you are responsible for the location of your cartoon plane on your FE/reality.

if its location intersects with another object it gets a dent. just like real life.. the difference comes in on whether the other person takes damage.. because in his reality he may not have collided.
in order to ram you and make you take damage, a player would have to guess where you are and be right.

Rich46yo · « **Reply #39 on:** November 22, 2007, 12:55:16 AM »

So Im responsible for where my plane is in cartoon reality but it doesn't really matter cause I have no control over the other planes reality, nor does anyone else. The plane running into me hits me in my reality but not his? Right?

And since Im flying away from him, with my rear end pointed at him, I have zero control over the ram or who gets the kills? Correct? Like I said, a crapshoot? It would be one thing if I was flying at him and actually hit him, even in just my own reality, but to be flying away from him?? Thats the point Im trying to make. I understand the issue of lag and were all not seeing things at exactly the same instant.

Well....there is no real way to correct any of this. Its actually fairly impressive that the game works as well as it does, what with guys and gals all over the world flying together at once.

Thanks for the help.

Lusche · « **Reply #40 on:** November 22, 2007, 01:06:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rich46yo
So Im responsible for where my plane is in cartoon reality but it doesn't really matter cause I have no control over the other planes reality,

Not exactly, because if you dodge him on your FE, it's irrelevant to you what happens on his (in regard to collisions) Only your FE matters - if he rams you on his FE only, you'll fly away unharmed.

Quote

Originally posted by Rich46yo
And since Im flying away from him, with my rear end pointed at him, I have zero control over the ram or who gets the kills? Correct? Like I said, a crapshoot? It would be one thing if I was flying at him and actually hit him, even in just my own reality, but to be flying away from him??

If you maneuver so that you dodge him on your FE, no collision occurs for you (with possible collision on HIS FE only, accompanied with a whine on CH200

) . Or you can shoot him down prior to that.

It's really important to see that current modeling is the most fair one for every player. So far nobody came up with a practiable & better solution.

SD67 · « **Reply #41 on:** November 22, 2007, 01:38:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FBplmmr
Rich what you computer sees does not mean what view you have open.. it really refers to the reality that your cartoon plane exists in. it is called your FE or front end.

because of lag, the reality my cartoon plane exists in shows everyone in slightly different positions than the reality your cartoon plane exists in does.

in my reality i may fly near you but not touch you..at the same time .. in your reality our planes may intersect.

if that occurs, your plane would take damage but mine would not. because the best we can do is fly to the 'reality' depicted on our own screen.
this can work opposite or both could take damage..but it most definitely not a crapshoot because each pilot is responsible for his reality.

you are responsible for the location of your cartoon plane on your FE/reality.

if its location intersects with another object it gets a dent. just like real life.. the difference comes in on whether the other person takes damage.. because in his reality he may not have collided.
in order to ram you and make you take damage, a player would have to guess where you are and be right.

OK so this does go to explain one side of a paradoxical issue I've had from time to time.
In a fight, I'm watching the enemy as we duel closely, he fires and I see his tracers pass well away from me, and (it seems like seconds but in reality it's probably milliseconds) later once the shells are past I'm still reversing all of a sudden I'm in the tower with shells exploding in my ears for 5 seconds.
Now I saw him miss, and miss big time, yet his FE obviously saw a kill... this is what happened right?

Larry · « **Reply #42 on:** November 22, 2007, 01:39:15 AM »

Okay rich watch this film. Tbar came close to hitting me on my end but didnt. That means I dont take damage. On his end he flew into my plane thus he takes damage. Notice how I got the "Tbar has collided with you." in white. From what I know white message means your safe and the other guy is takes damage. Yellow "you have collided" message means youre the one taking damage. And the yellow and white message means your both taking damage because both "saw" a collision.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/ram.zip

Larry · « **Reply #43 on:** November 22, 2007, 01:42:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SD67
OK so this does go to explain one side of a paradoxical issue I've had from time to time.
In a fight, I'm watching the enemy as we duel closely, he fires and I see his tracers pass well away from me, and (it seems like seconds but in reality it's probably milliseconds) later once the shells are past I'm still reversing all of a sudden I'm in the tower with shells exploding in my ears for 5 seconds.
Now I saw him miss, and miss big time, yet his FE obviously saw a kill... this is what happened right?

Yes. Or have you ever sat on a CV and seen someone hovering in mid air? Its the same "lag" you may see the guy 200Ft off the carrier but on his end he is sitting on it.

Trukk · « **Reply #44 on:** November 22, 2007, 04:59:12 AM »

Rich, the way AH is setup, it's making the best of an imperfect situation. Unless someone invents an internet with zero latency, we're stuck with it. The good thing is that it really is a "What you (ie your FE) see is what you get" situation, making it very hard to intentionaly ram without just killing yourself. I think you just had a bad luck night.