109f

[df54]

I just came from dueling arena and got nailed trying to rope a zeke three
times in a row.  Since the 109 has a superior climb rate obviously i'm doing
something wrong. HELP

[Ack-Ack]

Don't mistake climb rate for zoom climb ability.  Just because a plane has a better climb rate doesn't always mean the plane has better vertical performance than a plane with inferior climb rate.

An example is the P-38.  It has a slightly above average climb rate but has an excellent vertical performance than planes (like the Bf109s) with a far superior climb rate.  The reason is that the P-38 sheds E slower in the vertical than the 109.  The same with the Zeke, it sheds E slower in the vertical than the 109.  If both of you were roughly the same speed, the Zeke would have easily been able to match any verticle climb you tried.  However, if you were have used your better climb rate in the form of a spiral climb, you would have been able to gain the advantage of the poorer climbing Zeke for the kill.


ack-ack

[df54]

After reviewing film more closely its obvious the 109 lost e at a much faster rate than the zeke. Is it because the zeke is lighter?

[df54]

In fact i was shocked at how fast the 109f lost E, really shocked!!!!.

[Bubbajj]

An empty zeke will climb like a beast. You shouldn't meet anything but empty zekes in the DA.

[Spatula]

Originally posted by df54
After reviewing film more closely its obvious the 109 lost e at a much faster rate than the zeke. Is it because the zeke is lighter?

Post the film.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by df54
After reviewing film more closely its obvious the 109 lost e at a much faster rate than the zeke. Is it because the zeke is lighter?

Just like Spatula said, please post the film. Else it's hard to say anything about that particular fight.

Concerning energy retention, actually the A6M's shed their energy much faster than a 109F. And that is because they are lighter lighter. (Heavier planes usually have a better energy retention and a zoom climb advantage). On the other hand, a A6M can hang quite well nose up in the vertical, being able to negate that 109 advantage for a short but deadly time

However, just having a advantage in sustained and zoom climb capability doesn't guearantee a sucessful rope. It's all about pilot skill and initial situation prior to that rope. The Zero could have had more energy to start with or it's pilot simply was better at holding it through careful maneuvering.

Also take note that a 109F has only a 500ft/min advantage over the A6M5 - enough to gradually climb away, but not necessarily enough to get out of gun's range quick enough all the time...

[bozon]

The zeke is not zooming, nor climbing. It is a slow moving, fast rotating gun turret more than anything else.

The reason that they are so dangerous in a zoom climb is that they can get their nose up at any speed and keep it there for a very long time (while gaining very little altitude, it is almost a hover maneuver). While you use your superior climb/zoom to get higher than him, he just points his guns up, having plenty of control left to aim at 80 mph indicated and send those 20mm zooming after you - and you can't out zoom a bullet.

To sum it up, they are dangerous because they can aim upwards, not zoom or climb, same goes for the hurry, N1k and spit 5. If they try to rope you instead, you will notice that you usually zoom right up their behind.

[WMLute]

next time try a spiral climb.

the zeke can hang on it's prop's and nail ya' in a zoom, but can't stay in a sustained climb w/ you.

it takes some practice, but once you have it down, you'll be smackin' zeke's around.

[df54]

thanks guys i"ll post a film as soon as i remember how. If anybody has any films showing spiral climb i'd sure like to see one.