P-51 Mustang

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Ok, well in that case I would keep going vertical.  The P-51s low speed maneuverability is not as bad as you say.  

But very rarely do I run across a spit pilot that does more than a flat turn.  I have a positive kill-to-death ratio that can attest to that.  My arena name is Shrimp07.

If you literally go vertical or close to it, assuming you are co-E and not just co-alt,   BOOM you are dead.

As your 51 loses speed and begins the stall, your spit opponent maintains his climb and easily gets a kill.  You  can do this to a spit1, and maybe  a spit V if he pulls too hard to acquire your 6 in the vert.  Do this to the later spits and you'll find yourself falling to the ground or in the tower.  For this merge move you are gambling on your opponent's lack of skill. Any stick that's been in a spitty for 2 weeks or more will climb up your tailpipe and make quick work of you.

[AquaShrimp]

Why would I be co-e?  My whole strategy would be to get the spit to try to follow me, and him stall out first.

But I can't remember the last time I've had a spit do anything besides a flat turn in the MA.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Why would I be co-e?  

Lol I figured.  When one discusses merges, it is implied that there  is some kind of E state equilibrium.  You might as well have said that you came in 3000 feet higher and didn't merge at all.  All you are saying is that  you try to come in with  more E and rope the guy.

[AquaShrimp]

When you go vertical, your not only conserving (or even gaining) E, you're also doing an out-of-plane maneuver.  This can disorient or cause the other pilot to lose sight of you.  The flat-turning spit will still be hauling around in the turn while you are getting your nose on him.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
When you go vertical, your not only conserving (or even gaining) E, you're also doing an out-of-plane maneuver.  This can disorient or cause the other pilot to lose sight of you.  The flat-turning spit will still be hauling around in the turn while you are getting your nose on him.

Well, so far you have described how to fight a noob. That's fine, we have plenty of those. However, your solution works only if the enemy is inexperienced.

The question begs, what do you do when you run into someone like me or Dedalos, or Urchin or any number of our highly skilled pilots? Moreover, what happens when you meet a skilled P-51 stick? What happens when you run into a top P-38 or 109 stick?

As you advance in skills, you'll look back and realize that there was still much to learn.

My regards,

Widewing

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
When you go vertical, your not only conserving (or even gaining) E, you're also doing an out-of-plane maneuver.  This can disorient or cause the other pilot to lose sight of you.  The flat-turning spit will still be hauling around in the turn while you are getting your nose on him.

Again, this basis your entire premise that the spit will flat turn.  Like I said, and then WW as well, this is fine against a noob but anyone that's been in the game for a while is going to eat your lunch with that move if the planes are anywhere close to Co-E.
I'm pleased for you that you have some success in the 51 but I think you are  inexperienced in it and will find even more success once you really learn how to fight in it.
 I hope you don't take offense because I certainly don't mean to offend you. I actually enjoy the attitude of relative new guys who start to get a grasp of the game, garner some successes, then with the new confidence really go after the bad guys with enthusiasm. It's fun to watch.

I had a couple of relative new guys ride with me for several flights last tour at their request.  I could tell by their comments that it was eye opening for them and they both told me that hadn't known that a pony could fly around near the deck and get a bag full of kills.  They always assumed it was limited to a E superior BnZ role. You should find an accomplished pilot, the names WW listed and WW himself are excellent examples,  and ride along.  I suspect you'll learn quite a bit... maybe really become a killer then.

[humble]

hmmmm....

What do you do if the spitty counters your vertical move with a low yoyo leading into a vertical two circle fight?

Certainly no question that going vertical when you know you have the edge is a good idea...however your setting up either a b&Z or E attack. If your intent is to create a downward angle for a shot your simply playing into any one of a hundred good spit drivers hands. Basically your setting up a "remerge" that works against you and plays to the spits strengths. A good spit sriver will eat your E up in a few passes...

[trigger2]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
You should find an accomplished pilot, the names WW listed and WW himself are excellent examples,  and ride along.  I suspect you'll learn quite a bit... maybe really become a killer then.

I've done this a few times, and after I did do it, that's when I did start racking up kills.
Before I took a few sorties with TA57 I couldn't even vulch without hitting the runway, and apparently, your not supposed to hit it nose first at 300 mph [:
A spitfire can outturn a P-51 easy, yes, we all know this, but, the P-51 can sure put up a **** good fight, specially seeing as how, as I said, 90% of the people in spitfires don't know how to fly.
Now I pose a new question, best fight you've been in with a P-51?
I actually have 2,
1 being a rolling scissors with a Yak-9U and a La-7 at an altitude of your engines got grass stains on it, beat 'em both but the only name I can recall is that of the Yak, which was Fuzeman or something along those lines.
2 being a huge furball over an enemy base with all the hangers up (VH FH BH everything) While at an average altitude of about 200 feet (if that) we were outtnumbered about 3 to 1 mostly Persuit planes vs hurricanes and spitfires and the occasionaly b25, ended up racking up 4 kills and able to make it home (thanks to spacy clearing a temp off of me whilst I was out of ammo)

[bigrich]

well my great uncle flew a P-51 in WW2 and he said it was the best plane he ever flew. One of the reasons why was because he new its limitations and what it could and couldn't do, most of the time while he was escorting bombers the enemy would come and he would attack them using the enemy's planes weekness to his advantage because the germans tried not to let them use the advantage but most where shot down.That was mostly what my great uncle said to me before he pasted away but thats how he told me how he shot down most of his enimes

[Solar10]

Originally posted by trigger2

Now I pose a new question, best fight you've been in with a P-51?
I

I've had a few good fight against Rogent's P51D while I was in a Mossie.