Nothing to see here, move along

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by AKIron
You should look at Florida who had one of, if not the highest, murder rates in the US. This rate went down dramatically when they began allowing their citizens to carry concealed firearms. many other US states took the hint and reduced their rates also.

When the criminals already have access to firearms, allowing the citizens to carry them too might work as a deterrant.
However in a country where even the ciminals dont have easy access to firearms, thers no point making them available to everyone, cos the average citizen wont bother, and the average criminal will have a field day.  
As long as either side has guns there will be unneccessary deaths.

Therefore the best solution is not to allow the citizens guns, but to prevent the criminals from getting their hands on them.  Not easy obviously, but then the right course rarely is.

Close down the factories making the guns, close the shops selling them, and the dealers trading them, tighten up laws regarding who can carry them, sell them, make them, maybe throw in electronic tagging so each and every bullet can be tracked. Let market forces take their toll, suddenly no two-bit mugger can afford a gun, do everything neccessary to cut that supply line....and then nobody has to live in fear of being shot.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Hurricane

edit :
btw steve?  whats wrong with gun control in the uk?  are u really suggesting that guns would have stoped any of that crime?  

 

Here in this country, or at least where I'm from, people indeed believe that one of their basic rights is the right to protect themselves and their children.  Now, as long as you obey the laws, and show responsibility, then you should be able to own a gun.  I believe in the right to own guns, and have grown up around them my whole life.  



I believe there are times when killing someone is the only option, or an option that should be on the table to the victim.  I believe in the right to kill home invaders, and anyone who attacks you with a gun.  Sean Taylor should have had his piece armed and ready, and maybe it would have turned out different with him.  This is not to say that the right to have a gun doesn't come with great responsiblilty, it certainly does, but noone should ever be banned from having a weapon, if indeed that weapon is for the sole purpose of defense!

[68ROX]

Originally posted by Swoop
When was the last time a murder of a non-famous private citizen made national news in the US?

Wow....my guess is that you can't get Fox News Channel over there.

(A member of the Skye Network)



68TOX

[Whisky58]

I've been living in the UK for 49 years, and never been murdered once, ever.

Nice wind-up Steve - & very topical.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by Rolex
And just where in the article does it say that England has the worst crime rate in the world?

Uhhh in the title.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by Swoop
In my 34 years, I personally have never, ever, seen a firearm being carried or used by anyone committing a crime.

Most people can say that, anywhere.

[lazs2]

hurricane... just curious..

In what country where people are armed do they pull out guns and shoot people for asking directions?   Is there something special about brits that would make em do that?  

Also.. is it a habit that otherwise normal people will mug you?  that if you have to kill one... It will be found that he has no criminal record at all and works for a florist and is deacon at his church and sings in the choir?

For some reason... the muggers that are shot here all seem to have really bad records of previous crime.

lazs

[gpwurzel]

Hurricane, I disagree with your premise that criminals dont have easy access to handguns/semi-auto's in the UK. Where do you think the kids that are shooting people in Manchester, London et al are getting thiers - legally?

The controls that were in place were adequate - if properly policed. There was no requirement to ban handguns, which was a knee jerk, ill-thought out piece of popularist legislation at best, and a previously thought out way of removing the ultimate defence at worst.

I agree with you this Govt is corrupt, self serving, sleazy and greedy. They spin, manipulate and interfere where they are not wanted - at any and every opportunity.

Wurzel

[Rino]

Personally I take no joy from the English people suffering from higher crime
rates.  I just hope they can do something to lower them again.

[Casca]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rolex
And just where in the article does it say that England has the worst crime rate in the world?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Uhhh in the title.

To quote the odious Larry The Cable Guy:

That's funny.  I don't care who ya are.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Casca
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rolex
And just where in the article does it say that England has the worst crime rate in the world?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




To quote the odious Larry The Cable Guy:

That's funny.  I don't care who ya are.

He must have missed the first line just below the title too though it does have a qualifier:

"England and Wales have the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies, according to a new report by the United Nations."

[Rich46yo]

Ive always been rather fond of the Brits. They have some stones and always did, they speak the same bloody language, and best of all they aren't mainland Europeans. I have some fond memories of England, "those Im actually able to remember that is". Another great thing about the bloody Brits is that they Love their bloody drink, "even if fully capable of ruining a great bloody stout".

                   But, they got their own thing going there and it includes gun control and unarmed coppers. Its their country so they can call their own shots, and as nice a place as it is there is a lot of crime there. Our Brit cousins are saddled with the same insane Liberal disease as we are. Maybe even more cause they are geographically closer to the morons on the Nobel Society.

                Most Europeans look down on Americans as a violent people. Imagine that? A continent that started wars that murdered 70 or 80 million people in the last 90 years thinking that? But most have never even been to America and their opinions are skewed by the Liberal/sensationalist media machine.

            I would be skeptical of any report that relies on Police statistics. I say that cause Im very skeptical of Police stats in the first place. And without question I would feel safer in England then I would South Africa, and Ive been to both more then once. And frankly, Ive loved em both.

[Nashwan]

Hurricane, I disagree with your premise that criminals dont have easy access to handguns/semi-auto's in the UK. Where do you think the kids that are shooting people in Manchester, London et al are getting thiers

For the most part they aren't getting guns.

Just look at the figures. Whilst the British press keeps talking about an "explosion" of gun crime, the number of murders committed with guns last year was 58. In 1991 it was 60.

Compare that 58 with 11 - 12,000 firearms murders a year in the US, where people can supposedly "protect themselves".

There's been a lot of talk in the British press about the number of teenagers shot dead in Britain this year. So far the figure is 10. In the US about 1,800 teenagers and younger children were murdered with firearms last year.

Whilst there is some firearms crime in the UK, it's a tiny amount compared to a country like the US, where firearms are easily available.

Here in this country, or at least where I'm from, people indeed believe that one of their basic rights is the right to protect themselves and their children.

Here in the UK we believe it's better not to have anyone shooting at us or our children. We believe people should be able to go shopping without having to worry what gun to take to protect themselves.

With our much, much lower homicide rate, vanishingly small firearms homicide rate and lack of spree shootings, our approach seems to work better than the US's.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Nashwan
For the most part they aren't getting guns.

Just look at the figures. Whilst the British press keeps talking about an "explosion" of gun crime, the number of murders committed with guns last year was 58. In 1991 it was 60.

Compare that 58 with 11 - 12,000 firearms murders a year in the US, where people can supposedly "protect themselves".

There's been a lot of talk in the British press about the number of teenagers shot dead in Britain this year. So far the figure is 10. In the US about 1,800 teenagers and younger children were murdered with firearms last year.

Whilst there is some firearms crime in the UK, it's a tiny amount compared to a country like the US, where firearms are easily available.



Here in the UK we believe it's better not to have anyone shooting at us or our children. We believe people should be able to go shopping without having to worry what gun to take to protect themselves.

With our much, much lower homicide rate, vanishingly small firearms homicide rate and lack of spree shootings, our approach seems to work better than the US's.

The clear majority of all the gun crimes occur in areas that are "Gun Free" or have the strictest gun laws.

"If you ignore the murder rate, D.C. isn't such a bad place." -Marion Barry talking about a place wheres guns were almost abolished.

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by Nashwan
For the most part they aren't getting guns.

Just look at the figures. Whilst the British press keeps talking about an "explosion" of gun crime, the number of murders committed with guns last year was 58. In 1991 it was 60.

Compare that 58 with 11 - 12,000 firearms murders a year in the US, where people can supposedly "protect themselves".

There's been a lot of talk in the British press about the number of teenagers shot dead in Britain this year. So far the figure is 10. In the US about 1,800 teenagers and younger children were murdered with firearms last year.

Whilst there is some firearms crime in the UK, it's a tiny amount compared to a country like the US, where firearms are easily available.



Here in the UK we believe it's better not to have anyone shooting at us or our children. We believe people should be able to go shopping without having to worry what gun to take to protect themselves.

With our much, much lower homicide rate, vanishingly small firearms homicide rate and lack of spree shootings, our approach seems to work better than the US's.

                We do protect ourselves with guns. In fact we do it all the time. Another reason not to trust statistics. Whenever the Police or lawful citizen kills an offender lawfully the case report made at the time by Police is still classified as "Homicide" for reporting purposes. Its only later that a States Attorney and Police officials decide if its a Lawful homicide or not. Same thing with prison homicides. They kill each other all the time but looking at the stats you couldnt tell if it was in a maximum security prison or the White House lawn.

             So again statistics are very misleading. And another thing, if a visitor from England were to visit the USA and if they stayed out of gang infested minority areas of inner cities then his chances of being killed by a gun in America are about as much as his chances are back home.

          I'll bet 90% of this nations homicides are committed by poor,urban people of color where both the offender and victims are also people of color, and it might be more then 90%. Hey, same as in England right?

         And the other 98% of America? Most of all the places where lawful citizens are legally armed? No doubt safer then Britain.

       BTW these urban areas in big cities, that account for almost all our violent crime, are also places which have gun laws as strict as England.