Author Topic: Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is  (Read 2185 times)

Offline SkyRock

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2007, 12:19:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
how can a company commit a rape?

lazs
I think that the rape charge is just one thing, covering up, obstruction, unlawful incarceration, and tampering with evidence can surely be done by a company!:aok

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Offline john9001

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2007, 12:38:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
I think that the rape charge is just one thing, covering up, obstruction, unlawful incarceration, and tampering with evidence can surely be done by a company!:aok


a "company" is just a legal entity, the things you mention have to be done by people.

Offline bongaroo

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2007, 12:41:28 PM »
ummm...and as a legal entity the company can and will be held liable for illegal activities thats its members commit for the company.

besides legality, if a company has skeezy people working for it, the actions of the company are more than likely going to be skeezy

the whole no-bid crap is what got me not liking the company.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 12:44:11 PM by bongaroo »
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Offline Tigeress

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Military Hides Cause of Women Soldiers' Deaths
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2007, 12:44:59 PM »
I have been following, for quite a while, our servicewomen being sexually assaulted and raped by American servicemen in Iraq...

I don't jump to conclusions but… this article is but the tip of the iceberg of allegations and supported fact.

TIGERESS

from --> http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/57/17327

Military Hides Cause of Women Soldiers' Deaths

 By Marjorie Cohn
    t r u t h o u t | Report

    Monday 30 January 2006

    In a startling revelation, the former commander of Abu Ghraib prison testified that Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, former senior US military commander in Iraq, gave orders to cover up the cause of death for some female American soldiers serving in Iraq.

    Last week, Col. Janis Karpinski told a panel of judges at the Commission of Inquiry for Crimes against Humanity Committed by the Bush Administration in New York that several women had died of dehydration because they refused to drink liquids late in the day. They were afraid of being assaulted or even raped by male soldiers if they had to use the women's latrine after dark.

    The latrine for female soldiers at Camp Victory wasn't located near their barracks, so they had to go outside if they needed to use the bathroom. "There were no lights near any of their facilities, so women were doubly easy targets in the dark of the night," Karpinski told retired US Army Col. David Hackworth in a September 2004 interview. It was there that male soldiers assaulted and raped women soldiers. So the women took matters into their own hands. They didn't drink in the late afternoon so they wouldn't have to urinate at night. They didn't get raped. But some died of dehydration in the desert heat, Karpinski said.

    Karpinski testified that a surgeon for the coalition's joint task force said in a briefing that "women in fear of getting up in the hours of darkness to go out to the port-a-lets or the latrines were not drinking liquids after 3 or 4 in the afternoon, and in 120 degree heat or warmer, because there was no air-conditioning at most of the facilities, they were dying from dehydration in their sleep."

    "And rather than make everybody aware of that - because that's shocking, and as a leader if that's not shocking to you then you're not much of a leader - what they told the surgeon to do is don't brief those details anymore. And don't say specifically that they're women. You can provide that in a written report but don't brief it in the open anymore."

    For example, Maj. Gen. Walter Wojdakowski, Sanchez's top deputy in Iraq, saw "dehydration" listed as the cause of death on the death certificate of a female master sergeant in September 2003. Under orders from Sanchez, he directed that the cause of death no longer be listed, Karpinski stated. The official explanation for this was to protect the women's privacy rights.

    Sanchez's attitude was: "The women asked to be here, so now let them take what comes with the territory," Karpinski quoted him as saying. Karpinski told me that Sanchez, who was her boss, was very sensitive to the political ramifications of everything he did. She thinks it likely that when the information about the cause of these women's deaths was passed to the Pentagon, Donald Rumsfeld ordered that the details not be released. "That's how Rumsfeld works," she said.

    "It was out of control," Karpinski told a group of students at Thomas Jefferson School of Law last October. There was an 800 number women could use to report sexual assaults. But no one had a phone, she added. And no one answered that number, which was based in the United States. Any woman who successfully connected to it would get a recording. Even after more than 83 incidents were reported during a six-month period in Iraq and Kuwait, the 24-hour rape hot line was still answered by a machine that told callers to leave a message.

    "There were countless such situations all over the theater of operations - Iraq and Kuwait - because female soldiers didn't have a voice, individually or collectively," Karpinski told Hackworth. "Even as a general I didn't have a voice with Sanchez, so I know what the soldiers were facing. Sanchez did not want to hear about female soldier requirements and/or issues."

    Karpinski was the highest officer reprimanded for the Abu Ghraib torture scandal, although the details of interrogations were carefully hidden from her. Demoted from Brigadier General to Colonel, Karpinski feels she was chosen as a scapegoat because she was a female.

    Sexual assault in the US military has become a hot topic in the last few years, "not just because of the high number of rapes and other assaults, but also because of the tendency to cover up assaults and to harass or retaliate against women who report assaults," according to Kathy Gilberd, co-chair of the National Lawyers Guild's Military Law Task Force.

    This problem has become so acute that the Army has set up its own sexual assault web site.

    In February 2004, Rumsfeld directed the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness to undertake a 90-day review of sexual assault policies. "Sexual assault will not be tolerated in the Department of Defense," Rumsfeld declared.

    The 99-page report was issued in April 2004. It affirmed, "The chain of command is responsible for ensuring that policies and practices regarding crime prevention and security are in place for the safety of service members." The rates of reported alleged sexual assault were 69.1 and 70.0 per 100,000 uniformed service members in 2002 and 2003. Yet those rates were not directly comparable to rates reported by the Department of Justice, due to substantial differences in the definition of sexual assault.

    Notably, the report found that low sociocultural power (i.e., age, education, race/ethnicity, marital status) and low organizational power (i.e., pay grade and years of active duty service) were associated with an increased likelihood of both sexual assault and sexual harassment.

    The Department of Defense announced a new policy on sexual assault prevention and response on January 3, 2005. It was a reaction to media reports and public outrage about sexual assaults against women in the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing sexual assaults and cover-ups at the Air Force Academy in Colorado, Gilberd said. As a result, Congress demanded that the military review the problem, and the Defense Authorization Act of 2005 required a new policy be put in place by January 1.

    The policy is a series of very brief "directive-type memoranda" for the Secretaries of the military services from the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness. "Overall, the policy emphasizes that sexual assault harms military readiness, that education about sexual assault policy needs to be increased and repeated, and that improvements in response to sexual assaults are necessary to make victims more willing to report assaults," Gilberd notes. "Unfortunately," she added "analysis of the issues is shallow, and the plans for addressing them are limited."

    Commands can reject the complaints if they decide they aren't credible, and there is limited protection against retaliation against the women who come forward, according to Gilberd. "People who report assaults still face command disbelief, illegal efforts to protect the assaulters, informal harassment from assaulters, their friends or the command itself," she said.

    But most shameful is Sanchez's cover-up of the dehydration deaths of women that occurred in Iraq. Sanchez is no stranger to outrageous military orders. He was heavily involved in the torture scandal that surfaced at Abu Ghraib. Sanchez approved the use of unmuzzled dogs and the insertion of prisoners head-first into sleeping bags after which they are tied with an electrical cord and their are mouths covered. At least one person died as the result of the sleeping bag technique. Karpinski charges that Sanchez attempted to hide the torture after the hideous photographs became public.

    Sanchez reportedly plans to retire soon, according to an article in the International Herald Tribune earlier this month. But Rumsfeld recently considered elevating the 3-star general to a 4-star. The Tribune also reported that Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, the Army's chief spokesman, said in an email message, "The Army leaders do have confidence in LTG Sanchez."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Marjorie Cohn is a professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, President-elect of the National Lawyers Guild, and the US representative to the executive committee of the American Association of Jurists. She writes a weekly column for Truthout.

Offline john9001

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2007, 12:46:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bongaroo
ummm...and as a legal entity the company can and will be held liable for illegal activities thats its members commit for the company.

besides legality, if a company has skeezy people working for it, the actions of the company are more than likely going to be skeezy

the whole no-bid crap is what got me not liking the company.


yes, i did not mention that the company also has deep pockets, so the lawyers will sue the company. $$$$$

Offline texasmom

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2007, 01:09:25 PM »
I thought that was odd to read. Those gals got guns.  Just bring them to the pot with you & kill anyone who attacks you.  Sounds simple enough. They can go in pairs if they were worried (twice the bullets), and are very aware of the dehydration dangers.

Something intentional and preventable doesn't get much sympathy from me.

*edit* this post is in reply to the article about the female soldiers.
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Offline rpm

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2007, 01:16:13 PM »
Yeah, Mom. They were just begging for it, huh?

Here's  one to chew on, why wasn't procecution so swift and harsh that the men would'nt think of committing rape? Well, ya know.... boys will be boys! Teeheeheee...:huh
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Offline texasmom

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2007, 01:48:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Yeah, Mom. They were just begging for it, huh?

Here's  one to chew on, why wasn't procecution so swift and harsh that the men would'nt think of committing rape? Well, ya know.... boys will be boys! Teeheeheee...:huh


Yes, absolutely.  If you don't drink water in that environment, 'you're asking' for death by dehydration.  You can and should be responsible for your own actions at all times.  If you don't drink water there, you can die.

Separately, yes, you're correct about the prosecution needing to be swift and harsh for rapists.  It should absolutely be that way.  However, missteps on the part of leadership by not making the punishment swift & harsh doesn't absolve responsibility of the women in making sure that they were hydrated well enough to survive.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 01:52:10 PM by texasmom »
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Offline Tigeress

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2007, 03:22:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
Yes, absolutely.  If you don't drink water in that environment, 'you're asking' for death by dehydration.  You can and should be responsible for your own actions at all times.  If you don't drink water there, you can die.

Separately, yes, you're correct about the prosecution needing to be swift and harsh for rapists.  It should absolutely be that way.  However, missteps on the part of leadership by not making the punishment swift & harsh doesn't absolve responsibility of the women in making sure that they were hydrated well enough to survive.


Agreed. Were I in that situation I would have a makeshift place to go safely... a porta potty for night use and/or go in groups armed to the teeth.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=rape+of+servicewomen+in+iraq

Part of the problem is use of sexual attacks to force women out all together.

TxMom, when you were in the army, did you have any problems from any the guys?

TIGERESS
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 03:28:19 PM by Tigeress »

Offline texasmom

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2007, 04:33:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tigeress
TxMom, when you were in the army, did you have any problems from any the guys?
TIGERESS

No, I never did have any problems. But I wasn't anywhere close to being in an environment that the soldiers are in nowadays, either.  No isolation (being in the 'field' doesn't really count...), etc.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 04:36:54 PM by texasmom »
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Offline Yknurd

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Re: Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2007, 07:25:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
blah blah blah Bush=Hitler blah blah blah Haliburton is EVIL blah blah blah Cheney is Satan's Huckleberry blah blah blah


Well, if there one thing to be said about you, you certainly are dumb.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Re: Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2007, 07:29:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yknurd
Well, if there one thing to be said about you, you certainly are dumb.


Well I know you sure impressed me more by sharing that fart in public with us all. I'm sure RPM appeciated you "making him look bad" with that, as well. Reap the sowage. Yeah, you won the thread.

;)

Offline Pooh21

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2007, 07:31:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
And it was teh funnay! Funnayest evar! No .... really. Damned good job you. On a roll, man! You won the thread.

;) :aok
its been about a few weeks since I last said this
so think of it as a helpful reminder

take a bath hippie
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Bis Bishland bis Bishland bis Bishland wird besiegt!

Offline Yknurd

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2007, 07:31:14 PM »
I don't think he needs my help to make himself "look bad" as you say.
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Offline Arlo

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Tell Me Again How Great Halliburton/KBR Is
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2007, 07:34:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pooh21
take a bath hippie


Take your meds, skippy. ;)