Author Topic: Track IR question  (Read 1582 times)

Offline Lusche

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Track IR question
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2007, 06:13:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SIK1
I fly the hog all the time (when I have time to fly) and use trackir with out a problem. I do recomend that you use a custom (read very aggressive profile) no matter what plane you fly.


It's not any setup problem. "Agressiveness" will change just that, the reaction speed of TIR.

But the problem is a different one: The field of view when looking back is considerable smaller when using TIR. The reason for this: You cant put the head back enough, not as far away from headrest as when using a conventional view setup.

Please look at the pictures in this thread
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Offline Widewing

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Track IR question
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2007, 06:27:59 PM »
I bought a Track IR 4 Pro last spring. I found it interesting, but I also found that I am just as efficient using two 8-way hat switches. So, I never use the thing. It sits on the desk collecting dust, along with the goofy hat and reflector.

It's an expensive experiment, so you if you can try it first, do so.

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Offline Joker

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Re: Track IR question
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2007, 07:18:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett

The reason I don't like to wear headphones is because I don't want the speakers on my ears, as I used my normal computer speakers for sounds. So I just wear mine around my neck and put the mic up to my mouth.

Maybe if someone knew of a good "mic only" headset that would help on the tracking issue.


I use these and they work very well, and for cheap!  :aok

http://cgi.ebay.com/LABTEC-LVA-7330-ClearVoice-Head-Mic-Headset-PC-Voice_W0QQitemZ320194601110QQihZ011QQcategoryZ80183QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Offline REP0MAN

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Track IR question
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2007, 07:33:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
I bought a Track IR 4 Pro last spring. I found it interesting, but I also found that I am just as efficient using two 8-way hat switches. So, I never use the thing. It sits on the desk collecting dust, along with the goofy hat and reflector.

It's an expensive experiment, so you if you can try it first, do so.

My regards,

Widewing


Interested in letting that "dust collector" go for a nominal fee?

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Offline crockett

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Track IR question
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2007, 07:53:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
I bought a Track IR 4 Pro last spring. I found it interesting, but I also found that I am just as efficient using two 8-way hat switches. So, I never use the thing. It sits on the desk collecting dust, along with the goofy hat and reflector.

It's an expensive experiment, so you if you can try it first, do so.

My regards,

Widewing


Yea that's kinda what I'd be worried about. Kinda the same thing as buying rudder petals.. I just wonder if I would use them. In reguards to my views, I just have a single 8 way hat switch and I have no issues wth view. I was just thinking TIR might add more depth to the game.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 08:03:17 PM by crockett »
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Offline Blammo

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Track IR question
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2007, 08:57:53 PM »
I bought my TrackIR a couple of years ago and love it for all my flight sims, but especially AH2.  I don't have any problems with any planes, including the F4U.

Concerning the F4U, what I did was choose that option in AH from the relative view position (or whatever it's called).  Then, when I need to look back and around the head rest I just lean forward a little and then lean in the to the appropriate side.  Works pretty good for me.

You will be surprised how much you move your head and you willhave to get used to NOT moving it so much (expect when you want to look around).  This made my next sore for a few days, but after that I was fine.

Again, if you really enjoy flight sims, I highly recommend Track IR.  It isn't for everyone, but with a little tweaking and a little getting used to, it will be a great improvement to your game experience.
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Offline Lusche

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Track IR question
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2007, 09:09:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Blammo

Concerning the F4U, what I did was choose that option in AH from the relative view position (or whatever it's called).  Then, when I need to look back and around the head rest I just lean forward a little and then lean in the to the appropriate side.  Works pretty good for me.
 


Rear view with standard "Hat" sight


Same view with TIR


You can see the difference...

It's impossible to get more distance between the virtual head and the headrest when using TIR. It's reaching the limit earlier than the normal adjustable view.

It's not a limit impeded by TIR itself. And in other planes the effect is less noticeable or not there at all.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 09:13:17 PM by Lusche »
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Offline clerick

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Track IR question
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2007, 09:12:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
I've also heard guys say their views go absolutely bonkers when bright sunlight streams into the room. Does that happen with the LED based headset tracker, or just the cute reflective stickies?


The sunlight issue goes for any strong light source the "camera" can see.  My wife lighting up a smoke 4 feet behind me would cause it to go nuts (she used to get a kick out of playing with her lighter once she found this out).  The good news is that there is a filter setting in the software that allows you to effectively dim what the camera sees.  I have had much better luck with the LED's than the hat reflectors.

There are a few good custom profiles out there, i suggest you try one or two.  If you like I'll send you a copy of mine.  Also, as another poster has mentioned, doing a ctrl+alt+del and setting the trackir to "above normal" priority under the process tab makes a BIG difference in performance.

I honestly can't imagine flying without it now, not to mention all the extra buttons i have on my JS since i don't need the views anymore.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 09:19:57 PM by clerick »

Offline Vulcan

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Track IR question
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2007, 11:35:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
It's impossible to get more distance between the virtual head and the headrest when using TIR. It's reaching the limit earlier than the normal adjustable view.

It's not a limit impeded by TIR itself. And in other planes the effect is less noticeable or not there at all.


If its that much of a problem you could a program like glovepie to map fake trackir axis to move your head forward - it'd be pretty easy to do.

Glovepie is a program with many uses, one is to use it to map VR headsets to 'fake' trackir inputs:

See here:
http://forums.vr920.com/Topic233-8-1.aspx

And here:
http://www.3dvisor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=889
(esp the second to last post)

Basically you'd create a formula that changed your head position forward/back based on head rotation. IE has your head rotated past 90 degrees left/right it would move your head forward.

Offline Lusche

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Track IR question
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2007, 12:06:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
If its that much of a problem you could a program like glovepie to map fake trackir axis to move your head forward - it'd be pretty easy to do.

Glovepie is a program with many uses, one is to use it to map VR headsets to 'fake' trackir inputs:

See here:
http://forums.vr920.com/Topic233-8-1.aspx

And here:
http://www.3dvisor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=889
(esp the second to last post)

Basically you'd create a formula that changed your head position forward/back based on head rotation. IE has your head rotated past 90 degrees left/right it would move your head forward.


I was curious and decided to give it a try.. until I actually downloaded it ;)

I'm certainly not going through 35 pages of documentation telling me how to program that little tool with lines like "FakeTrackIR.x = sin(FakeTrackIR.yaw)*0.2 + sin(FakeTrackIR.roll)*0.4", only to (maybe!) be able to improve my rear view in F4U's.

If I have to disengage TIR in AH2, I would rather go back to my hatviews.

I guess it's way easier for HTC to correct that little flaw - just widen the movable space to the same limits the standard cockpit views have. Would really surprise me if that would be more complex than just changing a few numbers ...
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Offline Keiler

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Track IR question
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2007, 12:45:59 AM »
Build your own rig for your head, get a good webcam (read the english forums, camera thread) and download freetrack (6 DOF) for free.

Look here: http://n.camil.chez-alice.fr/index.php

and here: http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-5788390454421132360

Works like a charm, overall cost (depending on the tools you already have at hand), roughly 30 bucks.

Matt

Offline CAP1

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Track IR question
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2007, 01:08:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TC31st
Gave up on the trackIR.  When it works its a thing of beauty, but it has an unpredictable tendency to screw up at the worst possible times (at least mine did).  Also, its pretty much useless in a furball situation, however  In a 1vs1 or 1vs2 its a significant advantage...as long as the views don't freeze or lock up on ya.


just out of curiouosity? what makes it usles in a furball? i'd think you could look around much faster than by using the hat switch?
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Offline llama

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Track IR question
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2007, 12:51:42 PM »
I think people who already have excellent situational awareness via their joystick hats take much longer to "get" the TrackIR experience.

I was using 2 hats (and a "shift key" to double-up the views) for *8 years* before I won the TrackIR I have - I would never have considered buying the thing since I was very happy and proficient with my views system.

But like I said, I got it for free, and gave it an honest try. I gave it about a month on the default software settings before disconnecting it and going back to the hats. I found I was still using the hats to easily locate cons that took me a few seconds of head-turning to locate with the TrackIR.

After another month passed, I tried it again, thinking about what I liked and didn't and made a whole new profile from scratch. This helped A LOT.

On this new profile, it took another solid two months before it became second nature. That it, it took a total of three agonizing and annoying months to break the 8-year-long habit of using the hats to look around.

It took about two months after that to de-program one of my two view hats to something else since I felt the trackIR was intuitive.

Now then. I think that to someone that never bothered mapping multiple hats for the perfect viewing system, the jump to TrackIR would take MUCH less time. And in fact, I think to a newbie who doesn't have any hat-viewing-reflexes, the jump would be almost instantaneous.

Having used the TrackIR since 2004, I really think it is a dramatic improvement over the hats - it just takes some muscle memory to make it feel intuitive. When you combine it with true 5.1 surround-sound headphones, the experience of having sounds smoothly orbit your head as you turn your head this way and that is sort of incredible.

Regarding views: I fly the Corsair most often, and I think that if you save your head positions properly, there isn't really a problem with rear views. I'll post some screenshots in a little bit.

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Offline Vulcan

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Track IR question
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2007, 12:52:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
I was curious and decided to give it a try.. until I actually downloaded it ;)

I'm certainly not going through 35 pages of documentation telling me how to program that little tool with lines like "FakeTrackIR.x = sin(FakeTrackIR.yaw)*0.2 + sin(FakeTrackIR.roll)*0.4", only to (maybe!) be able to improve my rear view in F4U's.

If I have to disengage TIR in AH2, I would rather go back to my hatviews.

I guess it's way easier for HTC to correct that little flaw - just widen the movable space to the same limits the standard cockpit views have. Would really surprise me if that would be more complex than just changing a few numbers ...


Its easier than that, I'll have a play with my headset tonight and write a simple script for ya :)

Offline llama

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Track IR question
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2007, 01:17:35 PM »
And here are my views (Use the "Crease" of the mountain behind the plane as a guide to how far you can see around the tail.):

Track IR Right Rear:


Track IR Rear:


TrackIR Left Rear:


Also, don't forget that the views have smooth transitions from one to another: I can rotate my head a little more or less to see more to the sides to change my views in almost any direction.

Here's the keyboard views (again, note the crease of the mountain):

Keypad 3 (right rear)


Keypad 2 (rear)


Keypad 1 (left rear)


So, are there really greater blind spots behind the corsair with a TrackIR? I don't think so, after you play with head positions and save them.

-Llama

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