vs enemy proxy modifier

[Murdr]

No offence, but I think I might have figured out how to find a fight over the last 12 years flying online.

My point is a heads up to the office on the current game culture, and an idea regarding its managment.

[humble]

Murder its a cultural thing, we "grew up" in the game at a time when you measured yourself (and were measured) by both your conduct and the merits of your skills in both individual and small group combat. As a lesser stick it was fine to join in vs an "ace" in a 2 on 1...he gained "respect" by winning and you gained skill by fighting. If and when you reached a level of ability you simply accepted that your increased "Status" forced you to sit out a 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 vs another good stick. In fact pilots usually announced themselfs so "proper" conduct could be observed...

Anyone serious about the game knew the rules and the pecking order. The goal for most of us was to move up the ladder  in our own "informal" ranking. Now we have a lot of quaketards among even the skilled pilots. "pwning" someone is more important then meeting them even up and prevailing...

Simply the sad reality....

[hubsonfire]

12 years? I looked at your score the other night- it might as well just say "noob".


 Sorry, couldn't resist.

[DEAR98]

go with it

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
I actually like this idea, but I don't pretend to know how difficult this would be to program. Perhaps not that hard, simply count planes within range Xk, at the moment the kill message is sent?

Even at a disadvantage of alt/speed, 6 to 1 is really good odds, I don't care who you are.

It would depend on how the hit scoring is coded in the game like you mentioned..  If you look at most other MMO's, they have a feature like this implimented in their games.  If you are in a group and attack an NPC, the one that deals the most damage is the one that receives the most experience and the others are given experience by damaged caused to the NPC.  

But will this really cut down on the gang bangs?  I don't think it will, it will generate a lot of whines from the score potatos that's for sure and that is never a bad thing.  The problem is the new culture of the game as Murdr describes and it's no longer about us that got into this game for the love of Warbirds and aerial combat.  It has turned into "Air Quake" and the instant gratification of the kill no matter how it's achieved.

The other day in the Mid-War arena, I encountered 2 high Knits.  One was in a Hurricane IIc, the other in a F6F both flying at 15,000ft while I was at 8,000ft.  I started to spiral climb up to them and got within icon range and leveled out at 12,000ft to gain speed.  As I got closer to them on the intercept course I had set, both Knits turned away from me and started to climb even higher.  By the time I got to 18,000ft, both Knights were already close to 25,000ft and still climbing away.  I gave up the chase and turned back to some bogies I spotted on radar and decided to go after those instead.  Sure enough, as I went to engage the other two Knights, the two that continued to climb away from me came back and dove into an already 2v1 fight with their typical HO cherry pick attempts.  That's the prevailant mentality in the arenas.

ack-ack

[hubsonfire]

That hadn't occured to me, Akak, but that's a good blue print to start with.
 
Let's be honest though- this isn't going to happen, or even be considered, while HTC is making more money than ever. It's nothing more than an interesting discussion for us. That would make me angry, but I probably get more entertainment from the forums than the game these days.

Gah, happy thoughts, setting noobs on fire, killing chutes, reading the Aircraft/Vehicle threads.

[Murdr]

Not that ganging could, or even should be eliminated...Heck, I will dive in and pop a single enemy with 5 friendlies already on them for the simple fact that I want those 5 friendlies grabbing altitude so I am not the single, highest prime target when the next wave arrives.

There are however, and always has been the gang dweebs we've described who only fly that way.  Plus there are the wIn tEh WaR! types, who do the same for different motives.

I'd just like to see a token equation in the score system that hints that AH is about simulating combat between accurately modeled planes and vehicles, and not a war simulation.  Combat being the key word, as those looking only for a risk free kill are not at all interested in "combat".

The fact that 'gamers' aready bend over backwards to game the scoring system with something like this is an added bonus.  Those actually worrying about score and rank, would quickly learn it pays to be the disadvantaged rather than the ganger.  Might help some to have that group of players looking for combat also....Dunno, it was the only thing I could come up with.

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by Murdr
(# of enemy in proximity/# of friendlies within proximity)=ProxyMod

ProxyMod*DamageVsEny=Damage vs Eny points logged for incident
and...
ProxyMod*DamageVsEny=Perk points logged for incident

Seriously!  Im sick of the "war game"/"overwhelming force"/"teamplay" mentality of some sects in the game.  Mind you, not the normal Murphies Law of gameplay, but the guys who think AH is about calling the whole squad in on one lone enemy.  

The guy in a 4v1 should get x4 points for damaging enemy planes, and the 4 hero's attacking the lone enemy should get x0.25 points.

Coordinated local ganging is going to ruin gameplay regardless of "ENY" (country balancer).  At least make so the score whordes make less score progress for regularly not fighting without an outragous advantage.

something of this nature has been seriously needed for too long....

I'll sign the petition sheet!!!

[Arlo]

There's points?
































(On sabatical)

[LilMak]

"Two different enemy fighters come in. They had absolutely no reason to be out in the middle of nowhere. They had to be alerted to the location by the original pursuiers. What is up with that? Calling in 'help' on an already 2vs1, or "hunting"?"

I can see me as one of the second set of fighters that shows up. But I wouldn't be there for the gang or even if they called for help. A lot of times I find myself flying towards the green dots on the map (friendlies) when there is no radar available to me because that's where I expect the fight to be. Once I saw the situation I would try to find my targets elsewhere.

I think Humble's avatar sums the MA mentality up pretty well. Not like AW where people would take a number to get a crack at ya. The idea of what you're trying to accomplish is noble but even with the multipliers you're talking about, the gamers will still go for the EZ kill because it's simply in their nature. I think, at best, that 4 on 1 becomes a 3 on 1. It would, however, be a little more gratifying to have those extra couple points in your pocket for fighting the good fight. Hell, it might even encourage some of your team mates to help rather than bug out and leave you for dead. Earlier tonight I got myself in a turn fight with 3 f4u-1ds while in my jug. All three had alt. I made one auger (my fav way to get a kill) and took #2s wing off 1/2 sec before #3 got me. Would've been nice to have a couple extra points in the bank for that one, especially since the all started higher than me. I haven't been the Ma for that long but the gang mentality seems to be a function of the sheer size of the community. There are so many pilots out there that don't know each other (even on your own side) you get stuff like a giant gang chasing one plane even though there are pleny of targets in the area. What gets me more than gangs is guys on my own team pluggin planes as they spiral out of the sky. It's one thing to disrespect your enemy, it's completly different to do it to your own team.

[scottydawg]

From http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=219874#post2644745

I agree that there is no way to make a perfect scoring system, the concept that I am thinking about makes it more fair and more accurate in representing the actual skills that should be valued in a combat oriented game (notice I did not say combat simulator).

The second point you make (in my mind) is self-correcting.

I don't think it would be hard to 'coad' at all, a simple multiple inversely proportional to the nme rank applied to the score of killing the nme (maybe adding in the eny imbalance of the planes)

I have trouble expressing mathematical concepts in English.

killpoints=int((myrank/nmerank)+(nme_eny/my_eny))

Hell, we could even throw in a factor to account for hording by counting the number_of_friendlies/number_of_nmes within icon range @ time of kill, i.e. less points for your kill if there are ten of you and one of them within icon range (or some other settable distance like 3K). That could conceivably promote fair fights, i.e. 1v1 and even increase your kill points if you are in a bad tactical situation and get a kill.

so

killpoints =int(modfactor1(myrank/nmerank)+modfactor2(my_eny/nme_eny)+modfactor3(nbr_nme/nbr_friendly)

I think we're beginning to skirt a conceptual area where people will start complaining that it is 'forcing people to play a certain way'. I would argue that it instead rewards a style of play that espouses skills such as plane mastery (i.e. eny imbalance modifiers), ACM, and SA instead of other tactics such as alt-monkey/cherrypicking, hording and other forms of unbalancing gameplay.

[Murdr]

I guess I could clearify the points vs enemy stat.  If you do any damage whatsoever to an enemy, you get damage points for it.  Being awarded the kill has no effect on that stat.  The fact of getting the kill award just means you scored more damage points on that enemy than anyone else.  The actual amount of points you are awarded is not tallied on your stats until that sortie is ended because the DeathMult needs applied first.
[(DamagePointsScoredOnEnemiesTh isSortie * DeathMult) +
TotalTourPlaneDamageScoredOnE nemies]

Originally posted by LilMak
[BI can see me as one of the second set of fighters that shows up.... [/B]

Understood, in this case though, you would have had overfly the furball by 20 miles to be out in the middle of nowhere and happen upon this.

[Murdr]

In reply to the deleted post....

That is exactly what it would acomplish.  People would start looking for ways to game it, hence it would promote fighting even or worse odds, rather than the rampant avoiding fighting, to only engage for a risk free kill.

[Gowan]

hey murdr, i deleted the post because i posted to what i thought the thread meant and reread the first post and got a different interpretation, hence deleting to keep from being called a retard

[Murdr]

That's cool Gowan, I just happened to try to reply to you seconds after it was deleted