Turning

[zilla]

I have seen some pretty remarkable turns by planes that seem to not bleed off E at the rate that I do. I am sure that it is due to skill as much as choice of planes. I have looked through the material in the training section and still can not seem to get any better at tight turns. Is there any info about how to reduce turning radius while maintaining E? What sort of AOA should be used? What sort of throttle and flap manipulation helps most? Should turns like this be made in the direction that engine torque is already turning the plane? If so then does keeping the throttle setting high help?The descriptions of high yo-yo's don't really seem to be the turn that I see when I look at my opponents on film. I think I am seeing a flat turn where the inside wing tip stays almost stationary while the plane skids around on it's axis. I have searched throught the forums and training site and have not found this discussion yet. If this have been beaten to death already I am sorry that I missed it in my search.

[WMLute]

Best bet is to grab one of our fantastic trainers in the TA and have them work with you some.

You will be amazed what one hour w/ a trainer can do.

[The Fugitive]

First be sure you do not have the "stall limiter" enabled. In the game click on .

Next, you must use rudder in your turns. Rudder kicks the tail around to point your nose inside the turn making it sharper. Learn the key commands, get a twisty stick, or a set of rudder pedals.

Last, each plane has its "best cornering speed". These range from 150 to around 300 or so.  Knowing which plane can turn better at which speed dictates how you fight a fight in most cases. If your in a pony, fighting a zero, you don't want to get slow. The ponys best turning speed is much higher than the zero, and it is better to keep your speed to limit the zeros options.

Go <> for a great site. Select the planes you want to compare in the left column, and click submit at the top. It doesn't have anything on cornering speeds, but you can compare turning radius along with a number of other stats.

[Lephturn]

Wow, that site is AMAZING. I wish I had that kind of a resource "back in the day".

Now I know why furballing in my Jug at low altitude was always a bad idea.

[zilla]

I will certainly try to get some time with a trainer. Thanks for the link to the comparison page. Do you guy's cut throttle back when turning against torque or am I just over thinking?

[Widewing]

Originally posted by zilla
I will certainly try to get some time with a trainer. Thanks for the link to the comparison page. Do you guy's cut throttle back when turning against torque or am I just over thinking?

I suggest never reducing power to tighten a turn. Why? You may never be able to replace the energy you just lost. You can pull back power to avoid an overshoot. You can pull back power to induce an overshoot. However, when maneuvering for a shot, take the aircraft up to reduce speed rather than cut power. Going up is a deposit in the Energy bank countering what you are taking from the account. Chopping power is just a withdrawal, with no equalizing funds being added.

My regards,

Widewing

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Lephturn
Wow, that site is AMAZING. I wish I had that kind of a resource "back in the day".

Now I know why furballing in my Jug at low altitude was always a bad idea.

Heya Lepturn, long time, no see...

How have you been?

My regards,

Widewing

[Badboy]

Originally posted by Lephturn
Wow, that site is AMAZING.

Hi Lephturn

Nice to see you back.

Badboy

[Agent360]

I just made a post about this here.

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=222389

Widewing - I suggest never reducing power to tighten a turn

This will only help if you have lots of speration and don't plan on a close knife fight.

However if you intend on moving in for a close knife fight type of kill you will have to cut throttle to make turns. In other words if you decide to take the attacker on until one of you is dead then a stall turning scissor is inevidable. I guarentee if you keep it fast while turning in close there is no way you are getting away unless you run.

Practice flat turning over an airfield at about 1k. Pull this turn until your plane just about falls out of the sky. Then use flaps and rudder. When you can flat turn on the deck continuously witout crashing you have learned something. See the post link above. I wrote a whole page on it.

[Badboy]

Originally posted by Agent360
However if you intend on moving in for a close knife fight type of kill you will have to cut throttle to make turns.

Agent360, Widewing posted good advice. You can start a fight with more, less, or equal energy so lets consider all three situations:

• You begin a fight positionally neutral and Co-E in which case reducing your throttle is a bad idea because it will always cost you maneuvering potential.
• You begin the fight with excess energy then regardless of aircraft type you should use energy tactics, and if you can't get that shot, then continue until you are Co-E at which time you can turn fight (and you should already have a positional advantage from the energy fight stage) and now you don't want to reduce throttle because it will once again cost maneuvering potential.
• Lastly, if you begin with less energy than the bandit, cutting throttle is only likely to make your situation worse. You will already be looking for an overshoot (which won't happen if the bandit has a clue) and will already be able to win if the bandit does overshoot and you can reverse for a shot, if you reduce throttle now, you may allow the bandit to get beyond guns range before you get the shot.

Reducing throttle will only help if you are totally defensive and you are about to die anyway and you want to do something desperate. That may happen enough to beginners for it to be considered a worthy tactic, but once players move a few links up the food chain, they may never use it again.

Badboy

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Agent360
I just made a post about this here.

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=222389


This will only help if you have lots of speration and don't plan on a close knife fight.

However if you intend on moving in for a close knife fight type of kill you will have to cut throttle to make turns. In other words if you decide to take the attacker on until one of you is dead then a stall turning scissor is inevidable. I guarentee if you keep it fast while turning in close there is no way you are getting away unless you run.

Practice flat turning over an airfield at about 1k. Pull this turn until your plane just about falls out of the sky. Then use flaps and rudder. When you can flat turn on the deck continuously witout crashing you have learned something. See the post link above. I wrote a whole page on it.

I disagree on pulling off throttle to tighten a turn... Go nose high, Yo-yo, same result.. No wasted E.

My tests show that rudder gains you little, unless you've dipped a wing. Using top rudder absolutely increases your turn radius, while adding more drag, cross-controlling with yaw complicating a shot. IMHO, it's better to ease off a tiny bit.

However, YRMV.

My regards,

Widewing

[Badboy]

Originally posted by Widewing
My tests show that rudder gains you little, unless you've dipped a wing. Using top rudder absolutely increases your turn radius, while adding more drag, cross-controlling with yaw complicating a shot. IMHO, it's better to ease off a tiny bit.

Agreed, I almost never use rudder during combat. Accept perhaps to occasionally assist roll at very low speeds.

Badboy

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Badboy
Agreed, I almost never use rudder during combat. Accept perhaps to occasionally assist roll at very low speeds.

Badboy

Same here. Rudder is useful in getting a sluggish initial roller (P-38) going or speed up a slower rolling fighter (FM-2 or F6F). This type of rudder use is beneficial at low to very low speeds, and has the added benefit of yawing the nose towards the direction the enemy is turning. The down side is increased drag/reduced speed and certain aircraft can snap spin in response to too much rudder.

One of the game's well known F4U specialists was shocked to find that I could turn much smaller circles in my F4U, allowing me to get inside his best turn easily. A brief discussion revealed that he was using top rudder to hold the nose  on the horizon. Once I was able to help him break that habit, he was able to shrink his turn circle substantially.

My regards,

Widewing

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Lephturn
Wow, that site is AMAZING. I wish I had that kind of a resource "back in the day".

Now I know why furballing in my Jug at low altitude was always a bad idea.

You sucked in a Jug !!! ...