A8 good for flaps?

[Bosco123]

Still unsure about the 190A-8 is any better in a dogfight with flaps. I use the A8 alot and I never use flaps becuase of slow speed stall.

Do you guys use flaps?

[Tarmac]

If you're slow enough to use flaps in an A8, you're probably hosed anyhow.  

I've popped them in some slow scissors fights before, but by then it's usually pretty desperate.

[splitatom]

i have never used them figting exept when i tried to vertile against a ki-84 you can gues what happened

[waystin2]

Bosco, see if can't get Baldeagl's opinion on this one.  I had one great dogfight with him in my F6F.  I was at times using 2-3 notches of flap to turn inside him, but he was working that A-8 for all it's worth.  I do believe he said that he was using flaps, but to what degree I do not know.

Oink

[Charge]

I'd use flaps if my nose is already high enough and dumping E to force an overshoot to keep control when I start to work the nose down.

Do not engage a slow level turnfight in A8, and if you do and you somehow manage to open flaps you are as good as dead already. Just do not count on using them in turning. That means do not dump the little E you may have in turning but rather use it to bring your nose up to force an overshoot or use it for slight turns when scissoring and for a slight vertical movement in that if you can spare any.

They are only usable in landing (couple of notches) and keeping control in last phases of vertical stall and its recovery.

-C+

[Xasthur]

Don't be afraid to use them... just don't hang on them too much like you would in a 109.

Considering that you should be using the 190 in the vertical anyway, flaps are a great help to snap back around at the top or even to hold yourself up for that second or two longer.


Keep this in mind though.... people will often write off the 190 A8 as a dogfighter and will fight in such a way that has them not expecting a manuever with flaps.

Sometimes, playing to what your target does not expect can yield that shot that you need. Let's face it... all you need is that one moment of "Oh, bollocks, I wasn't expecting that" in the A8... 1 snap shot is instant death.

In short, don't rely on them, don't try to hang on them but DON'T be afraid to use them.

This goes for all the 190s, especially the D9. No one expects a Dora to stick around and put up a decent fight.

[BaldEagl]

I fly 190's a lot, particularly the A8.  As a matter of course I try to keep my speed up so I don't use flaps except in rare instances, and rarely more than one notch when I do although there have been times I've dumped all three notches.

I believe in the fight with waystin I was using flaps to haul the nose around and try to stay inside him and probably had all three notches out.  Even though I was commited to the turn-fight I ended up extending 1-1.5K three times to re-gain E and re-set the fight.  That was one heck of a fight.   waystin.

The 190's turn better than people give them credit for.  In a slow turn fight you'll feel it start to wobble near stall speed, and to turn any tighter you'll need flaps out.  Once committed to this there is no going over the top.  If you intend to extend for a re-set remember to get the flaps back in to start building speed/E for the extension.

A better tactic in the 190's is to keep your speed up and use a vertical zoom, then roll 180 degrees, yank the stick back and drop back onto your opponent.  This utilizes two of the 190's strengths, it's zoom capability and it's high roll rate and doesn't force you to lose speed getting over the top.

I've beat many more nimble planes turn and/or E-fighting with the A8 (Spits, F4U's, F6F's, Zeke's, Hurri's, etc.).  All it takes is one shot opportunity to win.

[Helm]

Baldeagle ....I like to fly the 2 cannon version so the A8 handles better ...what's your oppion of this?




Helm....out

[leitwolf]

for 2x20mm, pick the A-5 instead.

Imho, the whole point of the A8 is the quad 20mm (or twin tater) outfit.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Helm
Baldeagle ....I like to fly the 2 cannon version so the A8 handles better ...what's your oppion of this?




Helm....out

I'm sure it helps handling to some degree but I've never flown it without the 2x20mm/2x30mm package (better prepared for buffs if I run into them and fewer rounds needed to kill fighters).  

As I mentioned in the 190A-5 thread, my guess is that the difference is nominal as the guns are internally mounted, not drag inducing gondolas like the 109's.  Fuel load would have a larger impact, and with the additional tank on the A-8 (or the F-8) vs the D-9 or the A-5 there's plenty of fuel to leave 25% behind (although I also always take off with 100% fuel).

I prefer to make sure my shot opportunities count, and that I have enough fuel to stay out and use the full ammo clip, but that's just my preference.  I've learned to fly it and be effective in it that way.

One last observation; If you're going to take a twin-cannon A-8 out, why not take a twin cannon A-5 to begin with?  It would be much nimbler.  Normally, you'd take the A-5 for manouverability, the A-8 for firepower, the D-9 for speed or the F-8 for attack capability.

[EDIT]  I see leitwolf suggested the same while I was in a meeting (I'm at work).

[Helm]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm sure it helps handling to some degree but I've never flown it without the 2x20mm/2x30mm package (better prepared for buffs if I run into them and fewer rounds needed to kill fighters).  

As I mentioned in the 190A-5 thread, my guess is that the difference is nominal as the guns are internally mounted, not drag inducing gondolas like the 109's.  Fuel load would have a larger impact, and with the additional tank on the A-8 (or the F-8) vs the D-9 or the A-5 there's plenty of fuel to leave 25% behind (although I also always take off with 100% fuel).

I prefer to make sure my shot opportunities count, and that I have enough fuel to stay out and use the full ammo clip, but that's just my preference.  I've learned to fly it and be effective in it that way.

One last observation; If you're going to take a twin-cannon A-8 out, why not take a twin cannon A-5 to begin with?  It would be much nimbler.  Normally, you'd take the A-5 for manouverability, the A-8 for firepower, the D-9 for speed or the F-8 for attack capability.

[EDIT]  I see leitwolf suggested the same while I was in a meeting (I'm at work).

Actually I'm a big Fan of the 190a5 allready and have flown it quit a bit

...the reason I am interested in the A8 is for the extra range you mentioned
 ....i despise drop tank shackles and like all the internal fuel i can get my hands on ....Also i'm quite fond of the 13mm machine guns....the 7.62's in the A5 are useless ...you got me all fired up!...will fly some A's tonite!

....thanks for the reply

[Xasthur]

Originally posted by Helm
Baldeagle ....I like to fly the 2 cannon version so the A8 handles better ...what's your oppion of this?




Helm....out

My opinion of this is that the 190 A8 with the 2 x 20mm will still fall far short of being able to turn with.... anything, really so taking away the 1 - ping kill ability of the heaviest gun package on the A8 would be more of a detriment than an advantage.

If you fly a little bit smarter than you usually would, stay in the verticle and use a bit of restraint when it comes to attacking low aircraft you'll be almost untouchable.

The best thing about the A8 30mm package is that you really don't need to 'engage' an enemy fighter to get a kill. Once you get good with placing those MK 108 rounds you can hit fighters in high-angle shots with just one or two rounds from 400 yards out and take them out.

This is handy for those pesky La7s and whatnot.