Author Topic: 200 hrs + panel upgrade  (Read 773 times)

Offline Dnil

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200 hrs + panel upgrade
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2007, 06:04:11 PM »
no offense, just letting ya know.  How much actual IFR time do you have?

Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2007, 06:45:08 PM »
At the risk of sounding like an jerk...  did you read the original post?  I'm setting up my panel to to be an instrument trainer so I can get my instrument ticket.  My CFI-I and I have talked it out (the KNS-80 was his suggestion, a great one I think) and are planning for my learning.

I don't want to be one of these push-button IFR pilots that can't think for themselves when they don't have a nice big color map and synthetic vision driven by GPS and whatnot in front of them, I want to learn the basics and do the work.

I've got a PDA/GPS w/ aviation software that I sometimes use on long XCs, especially when I'm  over the middle of nowhere in case I need a no-nonsense "Nearest airport" heading in an emergency, but I prefer to use a VOR and charts to keep proficient.  GPS is easy, but RNAV forces you to develop good CRM and develop your skills.  That's my logic.
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Offline SD67

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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2007, 07:31:21 PM »
This is how I hope to go with mine.

I had bigger plans, but I had serous doubts as to if it would all fit, and it definitely would have pushed buttons on the budgeting advisor to ask for that much in one hit. :lol
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Offline Wolfala

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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2007, 07:46:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
At the risk of sounding like an jerk...  did you read the original post?  I'm setting up my panel to to be an instrument trainer so I can get my instrument ticket.  My CFI-I and I have talked it out (the KNS-80 was his suggestion, a great one I think) and are planning for my learning.

I don't want to be one of these push-button IFR pilots that can't think for themselves when they don't have a nice big color map and synthetic vision driven by GPS and whatnot in front of them, I want to learn the basics and do the work.

I've got a PDA/GPS w/ aviation software that I sometimes use on long XCs, especially when I'm  over the middle of nowhere in case I need a no-nonsense "Nearest airport" heading in an emergency, but I prefer to use a VOR and charts to keep proficient.  GPS is easy, but RNAV forces you to develop good CRM and develop your skills.  That's my logic.


OK iron man - what happens when your ground speed goes from the 110 knots that you are used  working at, to 170 with a tail wind heading south and ATC switches an intersection to some off airway fix - the same rules apply to GPS units as for RNAV units. You plug in the wrong values - you end up just as dead.

I flew with the KNS-80 in a Mooney 201 for 10 years, and its just as difficult to work at 160 knots TAS as it is at 110 knots. They are great - but you'd better make damn sure you don't program them incorrectly because if I have to attend your funeral i'll beat the **** out of you when my time comes to meet with St. Anthony.


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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2007, 10:25:12 PM »
heh heh, fine points.  Complacency has no place in the cockpit, I'm hoping that my instrument training leaves me a competent, live pilot.  Plus, I'll appreciate the push button stuff more if I learn the basics first, right?  ;)
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline jigsaw

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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2008, 05:49:34 AM »
Cheapest "smart" option.... rent a reliable IFR plane when you need to fly IFR.

There are a lot of changes in the works from the FAA regarding IFR flights in nav gear both in the air and on the ground.  You could very easily spend a small fortune right now on something that's about to be phased out or worse, require an expensive replacement AD to keep your plane airworthy.

Offline LePaul

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« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2008, 03:47:02 AM »
Nice hour building!

I'm afraid the only way I'll acrue any hours again will be to make the plunge into aircraft ownership too.  

All those gadgets, why not be a hero and just use the sextant and compass   :)

Offline Toad

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« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2008, 10:58:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
 Plus, I'll appreciate the push button stuff more if I learn the basics first, right?  ;)


I don't know Chair.

My career spanned the period from 1973 to 2003. My IFR training started out with some pretty crude instrumentation; it ended with the latest/greatest CRT displays, flight management computers, autopilits, instrumentation, yadda-yadda.

I can't honestly say that my appreciation or performance with the new stuff was improved by the fact that I learned on the earlier, cruder technology.

If it is affordable, the new stuff makes flying instruments easier and possibly even more safe. I say possibly because human error can kill you pretty quick no matter what instrumentation you have in front of you.

Generally, though, I think the new displays/instrumentation increase situational awareness.

The other thought I might toss in would be that the more modern your panel, the greater the resale at a later date. I think you'd get a higher percentage of your investment back with the newer stuff when you eventually sell.

Just my .02.
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Offline eagl

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« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2008, 11:27:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wolfala
OK iron man - what happens when your ground speed goes from the 110 knots that you are used  working at, to 170 with a tail wind heading south and ATC switches an intersection to some off airway fix...


If you know how to get to the off-airway fix, you just fly there.  Headwind switching to tailwind is a simple correction as long as you understand ratios and the 60/1 rule, or have good rules of thumb that don't break down when you are outside normal cruise or approach speeds.  If you can't get there (or in situations I've been in, where the fix is some obscure point not on any of my charts and not in either the approach or departure books) you reply "unable" and ask for an alternate clearance.  If they are unwilling or unable to provide a clearance you can comply with, you do one of two things.

1.  Cancel and proceed VFR
2.  Declare an emergency, do whatever you feel like doing, and let the uptight controller deal with your sudden elevation in priority.  And hope the FAA guy who comes out to interview you is understanding.

In the last 13 years, I've only had to twist the controller's arm about 3 times.  One time, they were unwilling to clear me out of icing conditions.  I was about 10 seconds from squawking emergency when they finally realized I was serious about not crashing that day and cleared me to climb out of the thin but ice-filled cloud deck they'd parked me in.  Another time, I arrived during "rush hour" about 5 min ahead of my expected arrival slot, and the controller assigned me a penalty hold that would have taken me about 15 minutes beyond my expected arrival time.  I didn't have 20 min of fuel to spare so I came back "unable".  The controller fitted me into the arrival flow like a champ and didn't even complain about it.  He was even gracious when he accidentally put me 1500 ft above glideslope at the FAF at night, after telling me to maintain max speed due to a 737 next in line.  I made it work through some creative application of aerodynamic theory, and he thanked me for not going missed approach and making him have to fit me in a second time.

This one was more entertaining...  I was #2 in a 7-ship string of tweets heading to florida, all instructor training so we had 14 IPs and no students.  The first guy was cleared to some fix, and being the good IP I am, I immediately started looking for it too since I knew I'd get the same clearance in just a few minutes.  The guy ahead of us gave sort of a "uhh yea cleared to whateverrequestinitialvectork thxbye" answer, so I knew he didn't know where the heck the fix was.  I figured I had 5 min to find the fix.  Well, I pulled out every book and chart we had in the plane, and couldn't find it.  They gave us the same clearance plus a helpful initial vector, but I still couldn't find the fix.  Not being willing to play stevie wonder with the approach, I told them I was unable to proceed on that clearance, and asked for something a caveman driving a wright flyer could do.  The clue light clicked on at rapcon since this sort of thing happens anytime a VOR/ILS/DME only jet shows up (ie. a T-37), and the controller gave me something easy (direct to a VOR/DME IAF if I recall correctly).  The guy ahead of me immediately piped up with "uh yea we're also... uh... unable... request uh....", and he got the same amended clearance.  The guy behind me heard all this going on, and admitted defeat early.  By now, the controller figured it out and the rest of the gaggle all ended up with an approach flow that was actually in our approach books.

To this day I still don't know where the heck that point was, but it may have been a fix on a SID, or a GPS or RNAV coord point.  Why they'd use a point published only in a departure procedure to handle arrival flow, I don't know.  But I do know that of the 14 IPs on that flight, not one of us were able to comply with the clearance.

The moral of the story of course is to know the capabilities of your system and to not hesitate to come back with "unable" if either your system is not capable of the navigation task, or if you are personally unable to comply.  Either reason is perfectly valid, although if you routinely come back with "unable" for anything but vectors to final, sooner or later you're gonna piss off a controller and have a nice long chat with an FAA examiner.
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Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2008, 04:54:11 PM »
Hey man, congrat on the 200H+:aok

As far as ur panel upgrade, why on earth would you spend big money on fancy stuff. Two NAV with 1 ILS, DME is all you need to cruise around at 100kts and poke the occasional cloud. When I see pictures of CRTs on those bug smashers panels, it ranks right next to pimp my ride's 3 Xbox in a 200,000 miles repainted Nissan X240.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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