Post January FSO Discussion HERE

[Stoney74]

For any questions, please...

[TUXC]

Wasn't the Yak-9U a mid to late late 1944 plane? This would be several months after the intended timeframe of this FSO. I know the Russian planeset has massive holes in it, but if the 9U is being used on the Russian side then perhaps the 109g-14 should be used instead of the g-6 for the Germans to even things out.

[Stampf]

Agreed!  G-6 is no match Stoney.  You really need to look at this, especially in the light of the way the last european based operation turned out.

[Stoney74]

Well, the 190F8 is a bit early for this time period as well.  I thought it'd be a better trade than the G-14.

[Krusty]

The precursor to the F-8 was the F-3, and it was basically a modification of the 190A-5. It didn't have as much weaponry options as the F-8.

You could just put the 190a5 in AS the F-3, using the centerline bomb (as was used historically) for the main armament. Then there's no need for the 9U.

The yak9U is a helluva lot more combat effective than the 190f-8, IMO. Being a generation 1 plane it has little quirks that make me question whether it should fly like it does. Anyways, it's blazing fast, once you dive it will hold its speed forever (FM bug?) and it'll just about out-turn the LW planes. If it had WEP it'd be perked!

EDIT: I wish we had so many more soviet planes!!!  Would make this SO much easier!

[TUXC]

What about either using A5s with bombs instead of F8s (like Krusty said), or not allowing the F8s to use the rockets and only bombs?

The Yak-9U really doesn't have a place in this FSO unless you give the other side a plane that can compete. Another option is leaving out the second Yak and giving the Russians some Hurricane IICs or Spit 5s (they had both of these a/c I believe).

[Saxman]

Why not swap the 9U with one of the Lend-Lease birds? Hurricane, P-40, etc.?

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Krusty
The yak9U is a helluva lot more combat effective than the 190f-8

The inclusion of the F8 was not meant to counter the 9U.  It was meant to provide the German side with a tactical fighter, much as the 9T is included for the same reason.  Both sides have two fighters to choose from, a tactical fighter, and an attack plane.  The Soviet planeset has its own weaknesses, which I will not go into here.  Regardless, the planeset will remain at 4 aircraft per side.  The 9U is still in, and the G14 is not.  None of the lend-lease birds are credible/competitive aircraft.  If it screws up the balance of this FSO, I can adjust after Frame 1.

I respect your opinions, and always enjoy flying with you guys.  I'm sorry you're not happy with the 9U, but that's the way its gonna be given the resources we have to work with.

And here I thought the GV stuff would be what generated all the fan mail

[Virage]

EA worth 10 pts?  Is that a typo?

Why the 20k alt limitation?

AH events site still has okinawa up.

[Odee]

All this hype over a plane that runs out of gas as soon as it gets off the runway...  yeesh

No, to the G-14  (Yes I am flying LW side)  Go center line egg like Krusty and others say on the F3 and use the A8 in a tactical role.

Oh yeah... are there only going to be two frames this month?  (18th and 25th Jan) ???

[forHIM]

A couple of questions:

The side that achieves supremacy on the ground in each EA shall be awarded victory points

How will this be determined?  If all the GVs in the area are wiped out due to close air cover and/or GV to GV kills, is it a draw?  5 pts each side?

Air-to-Air Kills will comprise a total potential of 60 points

So is this to say that the Air to Ground kills will only impact the 10 pts possible for each EA?

(total aircraft shot down / total aircraft launched)*60.

Total aircraft shot down is equivalent to the number of aircraft my side launched, but that did not land successfully, correct?  Or is it the number of enemy planes I 'kill" or get a proxy on?  To further develop this, if my side launches 100 planes and 10 land successfully, 50 are scored killed, and 20 ditched and 20 captured, the formula would be 90/100*60, correct?  And this would be the score my opponent gets.  Or would it be 50/100*60?

As kills of the enemy and deaths of my sides planes usually do not equal out since bails, captures, ditches count towards enemy kill counts, but not deaths on my side.


Now onto planes:

1. every German plane is capable of carrying ordinance (at least one 250kg bomb or better per plane) and only the la5 (100kg bomb) and the il2 are capable on the Russian side.  If this is a GV hunt, then the germans are way ahead in capability to execute a ground assualt using their planes.

2. With a 1.5 fuel burn, the 3 russian fighters will have very short legs.  To last the full 2 hours, I'm estimating at least 2 refuels versus at most 1 for the axis birds.

3. In the air, I do see how the yak 9u and la5 can be considered better at low alt, but doesn't the axis iron shine at the higher altitudes?  Granted this scenario has the participants fighting low altitude.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by forHIM
3. In the air, I do see how the yak 9u and la5 can be considered better at low alt, but doesn't the axis iron shine at the higher altitudes?  Granted this scenario has the participants fighting low altitude.

Yak9U, La-5, 109g6, 190a5 comparison.

http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=yak9u&p2=la5fn&p3=109g6&p4=190a5


EDIT: You've got a good point here:

Originally posted by forHIM
1. every German plane is capable of carrying ordinance (at least one 250kg bomb or better per plane) and only the la5 (100kg bomb) and the il2 are capable on the Russian side.  If this is a GV hunt, then the germans are way ahead in capability to execute a ground assualt using their planes.

While the IL2 can disable/kill many planes (each 100kg can kill a panzer by itself, the IL2 can carry 6 of them, plus the cannons alone), you are right about the ord capability. You could suggest that the 110C-4 be added as a Pe-2 stand-in, perhaps? The 110C carries 2x 500lb bombs (or is that 2x 1000lb bombs??) and could be quite potent.

[forHIM]

Krusty,  

Thanks for the link.  I'm just playing a little devils advocate here.  If I'm the German CiC, I would put in my orders to go after every il2 I see.  That would neutralize the benefits of the russian tank killer since it is weak in the air (slow, lumbering plane) versus high lethality 20 and 30mm axis cannons.  Where as the german's have the capability to up every plane with a bomb, so as a russian cic, I can't really strategically target 1 plane and reduce the effectiveness of my opponents GV attack.  You could argue that the 110-G2 is/will be the primary attack plane for the Axis and that it would be the one the russian cic targets.  But what could a large squad of 109G6's with 1 bomb due to an entire 15 gv force?  I know that the Mongrels (who will up between 23 and 29 fighters) could wipe out the entire GV force by ourselves with the G6, (assuming we could hit squat) as it only take 1 bomb to kill a tank and we'd effectively have 2 bombs for every enemy tank on the field.

And I'm not trying to beat this one into the ground, I look forward to this plane set.  The yak's are the planes I love flying so I look forward to being on the allied side.  But if we're given Axis planes than I'll relish killing those pesky little buggers

[Stampf]

I just can't understand this one Stoney.  Why do the allies always get an advantage in the plane set, when we have European theatre set ups? Never fails.  No one posting here suggests the Yak 9 U should be in the set up, yet it is staying?

JG11 may sit this one out.  No interest in yet another axis slaughter.  We went from months of events so close we were calling them "ties", to the last two being the most one sided affairs yet.

It's bad enough the Axis have outdated tanks to face off against the T34 with.  Substuitute Tigers for the absent Panther then, same logic.  Panther was the main battle tank of the German Army.

To say, "I'll look at it after frame 1 is the wrong approach in my opinion."  To me this is yet another operation designed for an allied victory.  We really need someone with some Axis "interest" in the "powers that be" group, really.

What a bummer to have this kind of set up after the break.

[Stampf]

Originally posted by Odee
All this hype over a plane that runs out of gas as soon as it gets off the runway...  yeesh

No, to the G-14  (Yes I am flying LW side)  Go center line egg like Krusty and others say on the F3 and use the A8 in a tactical role.

Oh yeah... are there only going to be two frames this month?  (18th and 25th Jan) ???

A8?  Where do you see the A8 listed?  Give the axis the A8 and this discussion is over with for me.  At least Axis will have something with alittle speed that way.

EDIT:  One other consideration.  The FW190F-8 is not, nor was ever considered a "tactical fighter".  It is a dedicated and heavily armoured, "Attack plane", which leaves the axis in a hole...

Out gunned and armoured on the ground.

Out gunned and (AH modeled) in the Attack role.

Out gunned and out classed in the fighter role...

Sounds fun.