Author Topic: What Planes Means You?  (Read 1795 times)

Offline Saurdaukar

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« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2008, 10:42:00 AM »

Offline kozhedub

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« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2008, 10:49:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by thndregg
Yak9T and the business end of the 37mm hub cannon.


After reading Soda's for a bit I took out a -9T and found some bombers.

He was dead on about destroying those heavies from 800 out with one or two rounds, much to my delight.

Slow though, so not really suited to a chase.

Offline Bosco123

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« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2008, 11:05:52 AM »
I always had a thing for the Dora and the Pony Bravo, but what I realy like the most other than it saw no combat was the Do-335.
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Offline whiteman

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« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2008, 01:35:24 PM »
F6F and any P-47

Offline GooseAW

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« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2008, 02:03:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
I am confused ... what do you miss about it ?

I remember when Pyro disabled WEP until Bodhi produced documentation that the FM2 truely did have WEP ... outside of that I don't remember anything different about it from then, until now.


You must not have flown it much then. Historically accurate or not, the guns were much more deadly back then. The day it changed over to AHII it was instantly different as were many other planes. That's all....

edit: Just for grins I looked back at the stats I went from average monthly kills in the FM2 of about 380 with a high monthly kills of 535, to an average in the low 100s in the FM2. Of course I had begun to favor the F6F (among others) at this point for furballing simply because of the better leathality. IIRC this was probably due to whatever change they made in the .50 cal.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 02:26:01 PM by GooseAW »

Offline redman555

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« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2008, 02:42:42 PM »
Im a P-47 :D

im 6 foot 1, and am bout 185lbs, and in fights, im one of those guys that can take alot then deck you in the face and u just drop :D




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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2008, 02:54:24 PM »
Goos:


I remember this being discussed a lot at the time of the AH2 transition -- but as I recall, the programmers swore that the gun modelling had not changed with the version switch. The big change that LOOKED like a drop in guns effectiveness came from the introduction of smaller (and much more realistic) "hit boxes." And there was not, to my knowledge, targeted changes to single planes' gun effectiveness. The complaints came from everybody!

From my understanding, what happened to give that impression of decreased killing power was this:


In AH1 planes' structures were broken down into fewer and thus larger "boxes" for damage assessment purposes. The boxes were not only larger because they covered bigger portions of the surface, but HTC gave credit for near misses. In essence, there were larger bubbles both on the planes' surfaces and extending from the surfaces into what looked like air

In AH2, planes were broken down into more damagable areas. That meant each one was smaller, so the same spread of hits would now be divided between several damage columns without any one of the columns surpassing the threshold for critical damage. That made it look like the hits did less damage, when what really happened was that the same damage was just spread out.

On top of that, in AH2 your rounds had to be much closer to actually hitting the target get credit.

That combination of effects meant that EVERYONE'S hit percent dropped; that it was much, much harder to get kills at long range (800 yards was pretty routine from good shots); and that people felt the guns were weaker. After all, things didnt blow up as easily as they used to! However, the reason was not weaker guns, or changes in plane performance. It was increased sophistication of the damage model.

And in any case, it's way more realistic. In real life, most shots were inside 200 yards. In real life, even "stable" gun platforms had noise and vibration issues we can't even imagine..just watch some of those gun camera films, and see how everythign jumps around....can you imagine keeping the pipper rock solid in those conditions?
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Offline GooseAW

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« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2008, 03:04:38 PM »
Agreed, I vaguely remember all the discussion back then. Wasn't it a hoot takin a wing off of runner at d1200 :D

My point was the FM2 suffered greatly imo due to the changes. And that I was more than qualified to make the observation to reply to slapshot's post. Again......man I miss my AHI FM2!:p

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2008, 03:12:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GooseAW
You must not have flown it much then.


 :D

I tried the FM2 in ...

Tour 31 ... 197 kills
Tour 32 ... 247 kills
Tour 33 ... Put the FM2 back in the hanger, but dabbled around with it here and there.

Dusted off the FM2 at Tour 72 and it's pretty much been my main ride since then.

Considering the amount of hours I put into this game now, compared to what I was putting in back the the Tour 30 time frame ... I have no problem wacking planes out of the sky, with reasonable numbers, in my good 'ol gray/white FM2.

When we did switch over to AH II, yes, the gunnery aspect changed, and scoring kills did become more difficult than in AH I due to the finer granularity of the "hit" surface of the AH II planes ... but as far as I am concerned, the only change that the FM2 suffered was the removal of WEP as I pointed out in my previous post ... and thankfully it got it's WEP back.

Oh ... and I don't have much time in the HellCat either ... ;)
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2008, 04:27:23 PM »
In AH1 thin targets, such as wings from behind level, had a hit box significantly larger than the actual visual in the game.  In AH2 the damage detection now matches the polygons of each aircraft exactly.  This has made long range dewinging a lot harder than it was in AH1.
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Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2008, 05:11:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
In AH1 thin targets, such as wings from behind level, had a hit box significantly larger than the actual visual in the game.  In AH2 the damage detection now matches the polygons of each aircraft exactly.  This has made long range dewinging a lot harder than it was in AH1.


Karnak ... I'm not trying to be difficult here but HT has emphatically stated in the past that AH has NEVER had a "hit bubble"/"hit box".

It has always been what you described ... the damage detection matched the polygons of each aircraft.

The amount of polygons or detectable "hit surface" became more granular with AH II.

For simplicity sake ...

A wing contained 4 polygons in AH I ... hits registered more quickly within those 4 polygons and a failure would come more quickly.

A wing now contains 16 polygons in AH II ... now the "failure" area has quadrupled ... and it takes more specific hits to more specific polygons to create a "failure".

At least that is my understanding when this subject was heatedly discussed back when AH II was released.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 05:15:48 PM by SlapShot »
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Offline GooseAW

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« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2008, 05:38:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
:D

I tried the FM2 in ...

Tour 31 ... 197 kills
Tour 32 ... 247 kills
Tour 33 ... Put the FM2 back in the hanger, but dabbled around with it here and there.

Dusted off the FM2 at Tour 72 and it's pretty much been my main ride since then.

Considering the amount of hours I put into this game now, compared to what I was putting in back the the Tour 30 time frame ... I have no problem wacking planes out of the sky, with reasonable numbers, in my good 'ol gray/white FM2.

When we did switch over to AH II, yes, the gunnery aspect changed, and scoring kills did become more difficult than in AH I due to the finer granularity of the "hit" surface of the AH II planes ... but as far as I am concerned, the only change that the FM2 suffered was the removal of WEP as I pointed out in my previous post ... and thankfully it got it's WEP back.

Oh ... and I don't have much time in the HellCat either ... ;)


I know you have some time in it thus the reason for me looking back at my stats. I had more back in AHI than possibly anybody. I miss it because it was a brute for whatever reason and that fact changed with AHII. I am not saying it isn't a great bird now, for those of us that know what it's capable of and how to reach those capapbilities. I am simply stating that I miss it because it was much better against the competition then, than it is now. So, hopefully you are no longer confused. :noid

Offline BiPoLaR

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« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2008, 05:46:53 PM »
Anything with spinners and curb finders are cool with me :D
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Offline moot

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« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2008, 07:11:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
HT has emphatically stated in the past that AH has NEVER had a "hit bubble"/"hit box".

Yep, Pyro said it too.
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Offline Murdr

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« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2008, 09:48:55 PM »
In AH1 the hit detection model was not fine enough to exactly trace the 3d  contours plane shape.  If you'd like a 2d example, try tracing over a high resolution image with a 4x4 pixel paint brush...Some times, you'd paint outside or inside the lines, especially on a curve or diaganal.  Same kind of thing with AH1.  What was a near miss sometimes counted as a hit.  Not because there was a "bubble" or "shell", but because the hit detection model could not perfectly follow the plane shape 100% over all its contours.

AH2 they fixed the limitations of the model, and what were always were technically near misses, actually started to be scored as a miss.

IE. It was not a finer damage model, but a finer hit detection model that was added.

Edit:  I think they get miffed about the use of the terms shell and bubble because...A hit bubble in the 'stone age' :) was actually a circle, or later sphere around the plane.  Later a hit shell was basically a larger outline of the plane.  AH1 was neither.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 09:58:32 PM by Murdr »