Chavez: Colombia plans 'aggression'

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
100,000 gallons per acre per year.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2007_4438360

Not bad, but at what octane?

[Masherbrum]

Coal and Crude Oil are depleting Natural Resources.     Going to Coal puts you further behind than sticking with Crude Oil.   There is about 30 years worth of Crude Oil left.   Debate it all that you want, but the time will come when it's gone, or wells must be drilled even deeper to reach to old Prehistoric Swampland/Marshland.  It's simple Geology.    The MAJORITY of it, is in the Middle East.  

Hillary, ANY Democrat and ANY Republican will NOT get the changeover from Crude Oil anytime soon.   Why?    The Oil Companies and Auto Makers will not allow it.    Within 10 years you will see Linde AG sell more of it's locations to Airgas, they already sold the majority of it's Bulk Filling Stations to Airgas.   Funny, the Govt. wanted to break up Linde AG "because they were a Monopoly", but now Airgas has 85% of the Bulk Gas Stations in the US.  

The key to giving the Middle East the finger is to use Hydrogen or Water.   Use a renewable resource and they are on there knees like Jenna Jameson.     The Hydrogen Fuel Cell is a good start and could be up and running within 7 years.    

Coal is pointless for automobiles.    I won't even waste time naming all of the pitfalls.  

I haven't been to a Citgo (Venezuelan) Gas Station in about 8 years.  They used to put water in their gas.    Personally, Chavez is a moron who doesn't deserve the attention that he constantly gets.

[crockett]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And what wouldc the price be? per barrel of this Bio oil as compared to the stuff we pump out of the ground?

that was a serious question

But still. Its going to take years and probably billions of dollars to create the amount of infrastructure to build the kind of facilities needed to produce these kind of fuels in sufficient quantities and inexpensively  enough to make it viable.

No matter which way its sliced. Even if we decided today to go that route
Our dependancy on foreign oil isnt going anywhere anytime soon.

And again. you still have to get the knotheads in Washington to agree to do this and how and to who and where the money is going to go to do it.

A proccess which can only be discribed as painstakingly slow at best.

Mark my words. even if Hillary were elected. and even if the Democrats had 100% control over the House and Senate. We will still be dependant on foreign oil and very little whill have changed on that front.

Im not saying that its not a great idea. It may very well be THE idea of the millinium.

But Hillary wont be able to get any more done then has any othe president over the last 40 years.
almost all of whom have made oil a major part of their campagn issues

At worst case it wont cost anymore than what we are paying now and should be much cheaper. (like $1 gal).

My uncle is in a test program and is growing algae oil with the University of Florida. Bio fuel will only cost us more if the farmers lobby has their way and pushes corn based ethanol. (that's one of the biggest scams out of Washington right now).

Also the US is in the process of building I think 3 bio refineries, Bush signed the bill last year, you just didn't hear much about it. Even Bush and co know we need to replace oil, but they don't like to publicly admit it. The wheels are slowly in motion but they are already rolling.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
The key to giving the Middle East the finger is to use Hydrogen or Water.  

Water does not burn.

Burnable hydrogen is not abundant.  It must be manufactured.

To break the molecular bond in water to free it's hydrogen takes more energy than burning the hydrogen.

Freeing hydrogen from hydrocarbon compounds is less efficient than just burning the hydrocarbons as is.

Hydrogen is just a way of storing energy produced by other means.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Water does not burn.

Burnable hydrogen is not abundant.  It must be manufactured.

To break the molecular bond in water to free it's hydrogen takes more energy than burning the hydrogen.

Freeing hydrogen from hydrocarbon compounds is less efficient than just burning the hydrocarbons as is.

Hydrogen is just a way of storing energy produced by other means.

You missed the message and current goings on within my last post.   BTW, a gentleman in England is running his car off of water as a fuel source.   I'll have to dig around for the link.  

Coming up with excuses to stay with a fuel that will be eliminated is far from intelligent.    E85 is a joke and the majority of the corn used today, is from Govt. subsidized farms.   Gee, I wonder who is coming out on the better end of a fuel that "burns cleaner"?    

It's a good game of shell game to the consumer.   You're supposed to feel great about a "cleaner burning fuel", rather than "come up with alternative fuel sources".

FWIW, I used to work in the Gas Industry.    My "underlying theme" will happen.   Watch.    All of the signs today, point to it happening.   Also, freeing Hydrogen is easy for Linde AG.   They already have the World's Premier Acetylene Conversion System.   Get yourself some Limestone (instead of traditional Coal) and viola!   Acetylene.    

This technology is being implemented right now to do the same for Hydrogen.   It's about time someone (a shame it's a German run Company and not the US) realizes where the future lies.

[ROC]

I wonder how many people know that our nation is not dependent on anyone for oil.  Perhaps we should unlock the reserves we are not allowed to tap into, that'll screw up his market.  

Use theirs, hold onto ours.  

[eagl]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
The key to giving the Middle East the finger is to use Hydrogen or Water.   Use a renewable resource and they are on there knees like Jenna Jameson.     The Hydrogen Fuel Cell is a good start and could be up and running within 7 years.  

Hydrogen?  Are you kidding?

Where do we get hydrogen, without starting with something else?

Seriously, it takes energy to crack hydrogen out of water, and not a trivial amount either.  Then you have to store and transport the stuff, and it's a lot more hazardous and difficult to do that than it is to transport the fuels we already have.  And the ones we already have go kablooi every once in a while even though we've been doing it for many decades now.

Hydrogen sure as heck isn't a renewable resource, since it takes a lot of industrial effort and energy input just to get the hydrogen in the first place, let alone move it anywhere or store it.

[eagl]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
 BTW, a gentleman in England is running his car off of water as a fuel source.   I'll have to dig around for the link.  
 

If you actually believe that, then you're quite possibly the most gullible person who uses these forums.  Seriously.  Chemistry and physics don't work that way.

If such an engine were to exist, you can bet that it would not be confined to single examples of slightly eccentric brits who won't actually let anyone see how they have managed to defy every known law of physics to run a vehicle off of water.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by eagl
Hydrogen?  Are you kidding?

Where do we get hydrogen, without starting with something else?

Seriously, it takes energy to crack hydrogen out of water, and not a trivial amount either.  Then you have to store and transport the stuff, and it's a lot more hazardous and difficult to do that than it is to transport the fuels we already have.  And the ones we already have go kablooi every once in a while even though we've been doing it for many decades now.

Hydrogen sure as heck isn't a renewable resource, since it takes a lot of industrial effort and energy input just to get the hydrogen in the first place, let alone move it anywhere or store it.

Hydrogen is all around us.   I know how much energy is needed.   Again, I worked with Hydrogen.  

This isn't the 30's and the Hindenburg isn't around.    Oh yeah, I'm not gullible.   IIRC, he is getting 75mpg.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by ROC
I wonder how many people know that our nation is not dependent on anyone for oil.  Perhaps we should unlock the reserves we are not allowed to tap into, that'll screw up his market.  

Use theirs, hold onto ours.  

How long do you think our "reserves" would last at our current usage?    

Bottom line is this.   Folks are so lazy, they'd rather vote for the same lies they hear over and over.   Same applies to here, they'd rather think like sheep and "go with the flow".  

Venezuela would NOT be affected at all.   They pay .75 a gallon for Gasoline.

[AquaShrimp]

I've seen the water-car.  Its just a car with a huge battery and a water tank.  The energy from the battery releases the hydrogen from the water, powering a combustion engine.

[Tac]

I have the solution for america!


First, we need to develop a means to generate power from fat. That way more than half of the US population can simply plug their cars into their belly and make good use of that lard.

The other half is solved by developing a means of generating power from methane. In this manner, men simply need to sit on a specially modified gas-trapping seat and fart as much as they want.

4 problems solved at once. Damn im a genious

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Snip~
I haven't been to a Citgo (Venezuelan) Gas Station in about 8 years.  They used to put water in their gas.~Snip

Since water and fuel don't mix, how so?
Someone at the gas station running a water hose to the underground tanks?
Someone at the refinery injecting water into the fuel tankers?

...or maybe the condensation buildup is just not being monitored and controlled at the gas station (regardless of country or company of origin) like it should be?

[john9001]

it's something new citgo is trying, it's called "aqua-gas".

[Megalodon]

Originally posted by eagl
Hydrogen?  Are you kidding?

Where do we get hydrogen, without starting with something else?

Seriously, it takes energy to crack hydrogen out of water, and not a trivial amount either.  Then you have to store and transport the stuff, and it's a lot more hazardous and difficult to do that than it is to transport the fuels we already have.  And the ones we already have go kablooi every once in a while even though we've been doing it for many decades now.

Hydrogen sure as heck isn't a renewable resource, since it takes a lot of industrial effort and energy input just to get the hydrogen in the first place, let alone move it anywhere or store it.

Your kidding right? I can make hydrogen with 2 copper rods and a 9V bat and a cup of water.