Author Topic: I came, I saw  (Read 2568 times)

Offline Grits

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« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2008, 12:31:07 PM »
And even if in the end this system does not work out as the AvA Staff wants, what is wrong with them trying something? It is not the end of the world, and trying something that does not work is far better than doing nothing at all. I think if people stick with this and help the Staff make modifications where needed, this could work very well. Furballs will still happen during the course of base capture, bases will either be suppressed or successfully defended, which seems just fine to me.

Offline crockett

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« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2008, 12:51:48 PM »
I personally think it's a pretty good mix overall. Nothing I really dislike about the arena set up other than working out the various setting bugs.

The only thing I don't like is the side balance system. It seems rare to have equal sides, one team always seems to out number the other and then the numbers will normally win. Something really needs to be done to address that problem IMO.

I think anything else really comes down to the community and trying to teach newcommers not to game the game.
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Offline TheBug

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« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2008, 12:52:27 PM »
Good posts Grits, Von Messa and 4440
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
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Offline Grits

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« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2008, 01:04:49 PM »
For the newer folks that dont know me, Bug can tell you I am a free-for-all furball kind of guy. I do dumb stuff like turn fight D3A Val's and other idiotic stuff. The AvA kind of turned into what I wanted, mostly a furball between two bases, and it was not working. The days of 4-8 squads regularly operating in the arena as squads went away, with to their credit, only JG54 in there most of the time. I used to think Squads, and base captures, and GVs and anything not furball related was bad, but that is what the AvA has been since AHII and it has not worked.

Offline captain1ma

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« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2008, 02:26:27 PM »
All i can say is thanks  to the people that work hard to make this a fun arena. frustrating, yes, fun, absolutely!!! i enjoy it every day. i look forward to playing it everyday and i look forward to working with my squaddies for a common goal. there are guys making it fun and then theres the rest. its like shooting, you have to work with the conditions given to you at the time. so this arena has some funky conditions, adapt, adjust and make it work for you. Just have fun!!! thanks to the AH Team, keep up the good work-- Gary Davis

Offline TheBug

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« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2008, 02:35:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
For the newer folks that dont know me, Bug can tell you I am a free-for-all furball kind of guy.  


I prefer not having the responsibility of admitting I know you.   :D
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
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Offline Grits

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« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2008, 02:46:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheBug
I prefer not having the responsibility of admitting I know you.   :D


LOL, you are not the first person to say that. :rofl

Offline Warmongo

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« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2008, 03:54:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VonMessa
The following is a post-coffee post.



I think that comparing the new AvA to anything old is pointless.  It is just that....new.  Also trying to impose any form of fighting honor or etiquette may not be in good form in the AvA, given the new setup.

Both sides are given objectives to complete within a given time frame.  

In order to complete these objectives, plans must be hatched, cooperation between friendly forces must be paramount, and orders/plans must be swiftly executed.

Proof of completion of said objectives must also be submitted to acquire points and rewards for objective completion.  Furthermore, I believe that all of these things are clearly stated in the MOTD.

This is not the DA.  Given the conditions, timetable, and objectives, there is not much time for the normal "gentleman's fight" or furball.  This is not a free for all like the MA, either.  

Folks here are are running planned missions.  They are trying to take real estate.   Plan on getting vulched, hoarded, etc as these things pan out.  

K/D, blah, blah, blah means nothing here in the normal tool waving scheme of things, so being vulched should not be a big deal.  I will up 100 times if I think I can thwart a capture of a base.  f I get downed 99 times, but kill that "20th"  troop trying to get into the map room, I have succeeded in my mission of   keeping ownership of real estate in question.  End of story.

  As stated in another post, this is a bar-room brawl.  I have not seen it written or implied that this is the place to come for a "duel" or a "good" fight.  The fight here is for land, destruction of strats, or whatever else the MOTD or posts to respective sides about what secondary objectives there may be.

Honestly, if one want's Blunderbuss's at 20 paces or a fencing match, these can be set up in the DA,  24/7.

If I let myself get into the crosshair of the emeny, shame on me, whether it be  in the air, taking off, coming out of the hanger, etc.  If I see a red guy, no matter where he is, I will shoot at it.  Shame on HIM for getting in MY crosshair.
 
Unless I am mistaken, and please correct me if I am, this is a Side (dare I say team) based reward/victory system.   I would be hard pressed to have faith in any countryman who is concerned for his personal stats.  This makes for a very dangerous situation.  I know that said person is not really watching MY six.

In closing, I would like to say that individuals who complain about getting vulched X number of times, even though they keep upping, are the reason that we need disclaimers about how the fresh coffee is HOT and it may BURN you.

Call the lifeguard, please.


I could not have said this any better. This sums it all. Thanks for all your efforts AvA team. May the War continue...forever! :furious

Warmongo

Offline DmdJJ

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« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2008, 04:58:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stampf
I have never driven an M8 in my life before this AvA war.  I was not there to camp, I was loaded out with 1/2 HE for goodness sake.  We needed that base and that last hanger.  It is our Pnzr. Base.

But you did camp, you had multiple opportunities to egage me when I was in open field, but you didn't. You drove straight to the back of the VH and parked. Its all on film


Quote
I could not stop JJ from getting out of hanger every time.  Several times he got out, but never once came around to engage me, nor spun his MG while spawning to track, and or turret me. (?).

I got out only one time, and the other times I spun the MG around on you to try and damage you to no avail.


Quote
I ran out of ammunition.

That was my plan, only I ran out of time. I would have gotten most of the troops from the C-47's but a lucky shot from a zero took out both my MG and turret. When I respawned it was to late.

Can't believe this post has gotten to 3 pages. Guess all is not well in the AvA or it wouldn't have gone this far.:O
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 05:02:26 PM by DmdJJ »
DmdJJ   
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Target Rebaul-----> VMF-214   Fjord Fury RAF----> 315 Squadron

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2008, 05:01:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
I need to give a little history for those that were not around in the AH1 days. The Combat Theater, as the AvA was called back then, had a normal nightly population of 20-30 with big squad nights pushing 50 or more. We had base captures, and JG3 was the best at it (and we hated them for it). They did it by coming in as an organized group and suppressing the base, IE vulching, porking, and that is OK that is what you do to capture a base. There was no structured reason for them to do it as there is now, they did it because one, it was an easy squad mission, and two, they were good at it. Sometimes HUGE fights erupted at bases they tried to capture that lasted hours. Sometimes they tried to sneak quiet bases.

At that time the CT also had other dedicated Axis squads, like DrEvil's Death Squad. The axis in general was out numbered, but not always. I, as a side switcher, spent probably 70% of my time flying Axis back then but even when numbers were low we would have 8-10 on each side. I dont remember exactly when it was, but some time before the introduction of AHII JG3 left the arena. Some core members, Storch, TK, N7, VWE, and a few others I forgot I'm sure, formed JG54. This was the heyday of the CT (now the AvA). Then came AHII.

With AHII, lots of people did not have the computer to run the game. Also, there were only a few maps, none of them our old Combat Theater maps, and they were not good for AvA use. The lack of proper AvA suitable maps at the startup of AHII really killed the AvA, those that were there at the time will remember. Between the higher requirements to run AHII and the bad map situation, the AvA population plummeted. Squads could no longer take bases because there just were not enough people to do it. Even the guys that came from JG3 and formed JG54 who were so good at base capture, stopped doing it and along with the arena morphed into primarily a furball squad. They had to, the low numbers would not really support anything else. I personally liked it, because thats all I wanted to do was furball, but it happened because the numbers were too low to do any organized squad missions, not because that is what the arena was designed for or that is what everyone in there wanted. Some of the best fights ever were over base captures that teetered in the balance.

So, all of you who think of the AvA as an "historic furball arena" that is what it became out of necessity from the low numbers, but that is not what it was in the AHI days. The AvA staff, it seems to me, has designed a way to reintroduce base capture, and organized squad participation, but in a focused and organized way instead of the random way it was back then.


you sum'ed it up quiet well Grits............

alot of other greenhorns got a mouth full to say about something they have no clue about, and  only know of what they have experienced in the last year or less, including  CM staff members........

Gremlin, Big Max, Wotan, Shane, JG3, Redd etc....... in the beginning of CT them were some great times......

quoting my self:
Quote
really is nothing more to say, it is what it is........the whiners were absolutely loud enough to cause or force the Avs A staff to make a change....the only thing is they did it to make a better arena , for getting more people to fly in the AvsA, they just did not take into account for all the side effects these new ideas would bring to this once "wonderful place to fly/participate"


I feel the AvsA Staff strive hard to find a balance of good gameplay & Fights....... as this venture proceeds to move forward, I am sure or least I hope Soda, Fork, and other AvsA Staff find better ways to tweak the campaigns to be better for all.

as for the following posters in this thread who keep hollering that this is not a place for 1vs1 fights, or Good fights, or  whatever names of different types of "fights" you can come up with.

get a freaking clue about what  once was, and evolved into and then evolved into what we have now.........

as for the lemmings who holler " This is not the DA, or "The DA is where you should go"

nobody ever said it was the DA, handsomehunkes and we go to the DA when we get the urge..........

This place ( the CT / AvsA ) was a place that had great batles, had great furballs, had great fights be it 5 on 4, or 2 vs 2, or 1 vs 1, or 8 vs 3. It had people who mostly cared about the way they fought and presented them selves to their opponent on the opposite side of the fight...

a small few everyone dispised, but most everyone showed a bit of courtesy, respect, ethics.......

I hope and pray very hard that this portion that I last described, somhow finds the way to the top of all the other BS, and this place can become a great place for all.........

and yes, at times people who are all about the points,  or K/D or K/S  or name in lights are the same people who bring the MA mentaility to the AvsA.......

so yes, at times it is like a mini MA

the only thing is it is  that way now more so than it ever has been in 7 +/-  years
I hope the AvsA Staff can pull it off........
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline VonMessa

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« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2008, 06:09:51 PM »
First of all TC, I want to express that I have a high regard for you, as well as every other (unpaid) staff member, trainer, etc.  As a veteran of this game, you bring a lot to the table and I, in all sincerity, value your thoughts.  You, personally, have taught me more than one thing on more than one occasion.  I know well that time IS money, and any volunteered time by anyone is precious.

I will claim to be one of the "new" guys here.  I have no shame in that.  My opinion is only of what I know now.  All that I know is that there objectives and goals now in the AvA.  It is more populated than I have seen in a year.   I'm positive that all of this will fluctuate as it evolves.

What I don't understand(and call me ignorant) is what the fuss is about.  Is it because the environment has changed (ie: goals, etc) or  because of the people in the environment?  From what I can gather, it's most likely the style of game-play with a smidgen of all of the above.

When I enter an arena and the MOTD proclaims "Take this base, destroy those strategic areas" I (as I guess most would) tend to acclimate myself to the parameters.  If it were to say "Enter here all ye pilots in search of a good fight", I would not fly there expecting lots of base capture, and any countrywide co-operation beyond squaddies winging up.  No problem either way, just doing what the sign says.

That being said, I enter the AvA knowing that most guys are out for blood.  As numbers on sides get out of proportion, I expect to be vulched, camped, hoarded, HO'd, rammed, et al.  Know full well that I will repay in kind when I have the advantage.  The variety of the whole day/night milkrun thing is almost fun to me.    I may come to a map that is porked beyond belief on my side, or completely the opposite.  Yes, it sucks when you go in, your country numbers are low, but it can be fun.  I am from Philadelphia (which may explain a lot) and if you have ever seen Rocky(any of the movies) or an Eagles game, you will know being the underdog is a way of life around here and we have learned to have fun at it, but I digress.  I speak only for myself.

Another thing that I have noticed, is that there are times of the day when the numbers even up.  There is starting to be a pattern.  Guys come in, resupply bases, things even up a bit, and that is when it really heats up.  To me those have been some of the best times!

I believe that posting here is productive.  It lets the "guys behind the curtains" hear the darts and laurels of their creation.  I'm sure it helps them to adjust.  Constructive criticism is never a bad thing.  Whining is not productive.  The name dropping/calling is, in all honesty, something I expect from children.   The whole "I have it on film" ideology is baffling to me.  The first thing that comes to mind when I read a claim like that is "I'm telling mom/dad on you!"  I, personally would rather have someone quietly send film to "the man" and hear about it if it's a real issue.  Logical posts or questions to the "powers that be" are usually much more productive, as is following the "Chain of Command" for a legitimate gripe.  

As for the evolution of the arena, I will quote a famous Philadelphian.


"When we are finished changing, we are finished"

                                                                            -Benjamin Franklin

Respectfully,

                     Dan
Braümeister und Schmutziger Hund von JG11


We are all here because we are not all there.

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2008, 06:23:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VonMessa


As for the evolution of the arena, I will quote a famous Philadelphian.


"When we are finished changing, we are finished"

                                                                            -Benjamin Franklin

Respectfully,

                     Dan


excellent quote to draw upon......

- for the "I Got Film" some people use it to say hey look at me, while others use it to make the person the film is of, to have to insert foot in to one's own mouth :D

old players get stuck in their ways, if they don't evolve with the game, they get left behind..lot of dinasours bones laying all around from many past years and version upgrades and old long dead Flight sims.....

I just wish the AvsA to be more about good gamemanship / quality vs gamey BS and quantity...........numbers are not everything ya know!

~S~
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC