Author Topic: Turn Fighters Kill Me Bad  (Read 772 times)

Offline rauchen

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Turn Fighters Kill Me Bad
« on: January 24, 2008, 09:32:36 PM »
That is, when I fly a turn fighter I always die.

I usually fly the Dora or A8 and I don't bother to turn except as an energy fighter in the vert.  In the A8 I really have to keep cons either WAY above me or a little below me.

If fly an F4U-1A and I'm guaranteed to die.  I come into the fite with lotsa alt, and I don't let myself be sucked down into the weeds. It just seems like in moments I've got nothing but red icons in visual range - usually above me.  Or I think I have a ton of smash and an LA-7 climbs right up to me and blasts me.

Here's what I try to do:
Check my 6 when I roll in on a con and again just b4 I saddle up a shot and every few seconds in any case.

Check the dar bar to see if  the red horde is on it's way.

Don't get into a stall fite unless I'm 1v1 closer to help than not - if the horde is coming, I'd rather it was my horde.

Maybe it's the views out of the F4U that are killing me - I'm spoiled by the bubble canopy on the FW?

I'd really like to work on my turn fighting skills but I'm starting to think why bother?   I had a great fight with an La-5 and actually got into a vertical rolling scissor.  I forced him to overshoot and took his wing off.  As I pulled out with no e his buddy in a Spit 5 nailed me.  Once I was committed to the spiral I'm not sure what I could do about the Spit - just kind of unlucky which way I was pointing when I ran out of alt.  I'd rather not go out in the F4U if I'm only going to get 1 kill at best.

So, how do I fly a good dogfighter & stay alive?

I'm going to start recording them and see where I went wrong, but any tips would be appreciated.

Offline wrag

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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2008, 07:55:32 AM »
190 is NOT a good turn fighter as turn fighters go.  It's much better at ZOOM and BOOM style fighting or E-fighting.

F4U can turn fight be but takes much practice!

Some P38 sticks will hand you your back side ina turn fight.  The 38G can be a MONSTER in the right hands.

Wanna turn fight?  try to fly a turn fighter.

some of the better turn fighters...

A6m (either)

Hurricane (any but gun package is important)

Spitfire ( most turn very well and have fair to great speed, spit 16 meanest BUT not quite as good at turning as say a spit9)

F6F is fair

Fm2 is pretty good.

All the planes mentioned as turn fighters will turn fight fairly well DEPENDING a very great deal on the PILOT!
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Spikes

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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2008, 09:29:50 AM »
Take the 38G for a spin. :aok
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Offline The Fugitive

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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2008, 09:58:30 AM »
Turn fighting in a hog isn't the easiest thing to do, but with practice it can be done. In your fight above, once you engage the first bogie, you can't stop looking around for other bogies. Knowing the spit was coming may have changed how you fought the first fight, but gives you a better chance in the next fight.

With the spit, diving out as soon as you could and getting your speed back up so you could move into a scissor fight with him might have saved you.

SA is the secret to multiple kills in a turn fights, maybe more so than a BnZ type fight only because your low on "E" due to the turning. If you aren't spending half of your fight looking around, your soon to be in the tower.

Offline B@tfinkV

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Re: Turn Fighters Kill Me Bad
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2008, 11:55:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rauchen


Don't get into a stall fite unless I'm 1v1 closer to help than not - if the horde is coming, I'd rather it was my horde.

 



try not to limit yourself. some of the most fun fights i have had have been ones where i should have died 10 times over but didnt.

turn fighting is all about killing them quickly. the less aircraft they have flying the more likely you will escape.

you see a chance to stall fight even though you might die in the process.......just GO FOR IT! :)
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Petee

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Turn Fighters Kill Me Bad
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2008, 12:53:33 PM »
As a fellow corsair pilot you are not alone. I’m by no means the best
 
corsair pilot out there. In fact haven’t  played in like  a year and
 
its like starting new again, but from what I remember. From my  
experience if you get caught low and slow, and out numbered in any  
plane you are pretty much done, unless you’re really good or lucky.  
Some of the tactics I’ve learned while flying the 1A from other  
pilots and experience are, burn the fuel in your wings first, it  
helps with maneuverability. Usually when I enter a furball I’ll  
circle above like a shark looking for targets of opportunity to drop  
in on and try to time it so I don’t overshoot, be patient for that  
good angle. You can throw your gear down to help you slow. Also a  
notch of flaps works really well to help turn. My best advice when in  
a furball is to kill quick, keep your speed up, get in and out before  
you burn to much E and someone jumps on your six. Fly it like you  
would ride a roller coaster.  Don’t feel bad to call for help.  
Usually if I’m out numbered, I’ll BnZ, if its an equally sided
 fight,  
then I’ll risk getting slow and low with someone and pray nobody  
jumps on my six. Be patient, most people can’t fly out of a six on  
one fight. I’m still learning too.

Offline SuperDud

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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2008, 02:41:04 PM »
I'd advise cutting your teeth in a spit8.
SuperDud
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Offline WWM

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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2008, 02:52:05 PM »
Come to Mid war where there is less of a horde and hardly any 190's/ P51's zooming in to pick you off.  People are more respectfull of a 1v1 also and sometimes will not get involved.  It's not all roses but much better chances of actually finding a 1v1 and better atmosphere for stall fighting without getting picked.
Jay12

Offline Gooss

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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2008, 06:18:08 PM »
F4U's are like P38's in that they have a "Shoot me" sign on them.  Enemies just hate seeing them airborne.  They will chase a hog to kill it.  Use that against them.

Here's one fun way to get a 1 v 1 fight in a hog and improve your attack score:

Bring an egg to a defended enemy base.  Pre-plan your egress to a safe area.  Dive fast, around 475, to drop ord.  Pull level and extend.  Hopefully, some hero in an LA7 will want an easy hog kill and pursue because he knows he can catch a hog.  A hog will stay real fast for quite awhile, so you'll be able to get a fair distance from the crowd before the LA7 starts to close.  Engage and kill the LA7.  

A variation with a wingman:  

I like this when a friendly base is under heavy attack and being vulched.  The vulchers really want a target.  Give them one.  Fly over the furball.  Dive through them to get their attention.  Stay fast and extend while dragging a bandit or three.  Your wingman is stationed about 10k at the dar ring.  He dives in and busts up the congo line.  Kill the bad guys.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  

Have fun in a hog.  Chicks dig gullwings.

HONK!
Gooss
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flying and dying since Tour 19

Offline trotter

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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2008, 01:34:31 AM »
F4U-1A can out turn spit 8, spit 9, and above. I think you're doing a great job, hog is the hardest plane to foil. You won't be able to. But try.

Offline goober69

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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2008, 10:58:39 AM »
i know the n1k2j is considerd a dweeb ride, but id say try it out.
 ita a competive plane IMHO the flaps are uber you just dont want to get more than 3 notches out.
takes a lot of flap work but you can out turn spits in it at the right speed range.

only drawback is its not that fast or sexy as the other rides. but man if you get good with those cannos you can kill quick...

you can also bnz in  it to a certin extent you just have to know when to get out and rebuld your E because to me, B&Z is not the best thing if your gonna get over 400 mph.
 the controls get very heavy.


P.S.
 if you use your trim keys when you do say an immle at 400 or so, trim all the way up on elv and you can pull to nearly blackout all the way around twice.

main things to me in the n1k are
1. speed managment not to fast not to slow (control the speed of the fight)

2.  E managment  know your oponents e state relative to yours try to keep the alt, speed or position advantage. if they have more e use it against them
 turn lightly if you dont think they can hang with your turn. they will burn up thier e trying to get a killshot, once you get them to your speed you can simply out turn most oponents either in vert yo yos or flat turns.
also once they are slow enough dont let them rebuld speed easily  a lot of planes will out acelerate you.  also dont chase a diving con too deep you'll compress or lose position when they turn hard and you cant hang with them (if someone tries to run i usualy let them if it will put me at a disadvantage i.e getting low and slow for his buddies to kill me.)

3. cannons are great. go for every shot you get once you learn the lead you can kill about any plane with a 1/4 second burst from one or both banks
(you have tons of ammo and you can extend it by only firing the primary bank till its dry. id still recomend both banks against bombers and better armored planes.

4.    don't take a head on shot your opponent will be surprised :D  and if you do acept a head on your pretty much gauranteed to die or catch fire (nik's a roman candle but a little tougher/ faster than the zero)

5. id recoment fuel loading either 50% and drop tank for short flights
or 75% and dt for longer just remember your turn rate suffers the heavier you are a light nik is a monster.  i never dump the dt unless i go defensive which is ususaly the first high con to dive on me. as long as im B&Z i keep the tank around for a little while.

6. one luxury in the nik is that you can run away from the real dedicated turners and out turn most all of the faster planes i belive.
though your not gonna hang with a p51 at 400 mph when he drops a notch of flaps (just lag turn him preserve your e let him pull hard and lose speed playing into your game)

7. spits may give you trouble  get the fight slower and get your flaps out to 2 notches or 3 he cant drop his till super slow so you can get the turn rate advantage that way. that's if he decides to turn fight you. i think the spit 5 can still out turn you but you can outrun it.

8. must use rudder to asist roll with flaps out if your very slow say 3-5 notches of flaps. the roll gets VERY sluggish if someone starts scisoring in front of you your gonna need to feather the throttle a little and use rudder to asist rolling.

9. heck use rudder to asist roll most of the time (sluggish over 375 mph):aok


just some of my observations i could be (and probably am) wrong.:rofl
good luck.
flying as Marvin57
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Offline rauchen

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Turn Fighters Kill Me Bad
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2008, 02:26:52 PM »
Well, I'm getting better at this F4U thing - Still not as good as I am in the Spit 8.  I really like cannons - one hit snapshot and the other guy is toast.  The 6 MG need a little more time to work their magic.  I have to admit that the high muzzle velocity and the abundant ammo load are really nice - I'll set up some really long (600 yd) deflection shots and still score hits.  Nothing breaks your concentration like taking hits.

I've flown the Niki a lot in the past, but never as a stall fighter - I did just have a great stall fite against a few of them - I was in an F4U.  I had no trouble witht he guy that didn't drop flaps, but the one that did use flaps and rudder gave me a lot of trouble.  Maybe after I figure out how not to get picked I'll try the Niki again.

Thanks guys.  See you out there.

Offline WMLute

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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2008, 08:26:26 PM »
actually, that was a pretty decent niki write up.
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Offline goober69

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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 07:06:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by WMLute
actually, that was a pretty decent niki write up.


well thanks :D  i been flying it a while i favor it over spits for some silly reason.

wish i had used better grammer but i was in a hurry to leave for work.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 07:08:49 AM by goober69 »
flying as Marvin57
"we few we happy few,
  we band of brothers;"
W.S  Henery V