Ethanol Production causes harms the environment!

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Bodhi
increased uses of heavy machinery to support these operations is creating a far higher carbon debt than the actual use of ethanol reduces.
 

Right on. That comes from forming a so called plan, feeding it to the people without the benefit of telling them that their big plans start at point C ,D or or E instead of point A.
The one`s with the plastic Gore statues on their dash don`t like to hear this though.
The whole scam is a mockery to human intelligence.

[rpm]

Again, they are painting a worst case scenario. Using switchgrass instead of corn would flip those numbers hard.

LINK

But yields from a grass that only needs to be planted once would deliver an average of 13.1 megajoules of energy as ethanol for every megajoule of petroleum consumed—in the form of nitrogen fertilizers or diesel for tractors—growing them. This means that switchgrass ethanol delivers 540 percent of the energy used to produce it, compared with just roughly 25 percent more energy returned by corn-based ethanol according to the most optimistic studies.

[mora]

Originally posted by SD67
We have E10 here (10% ethanol) and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

If you use a 2-Stroke engine which hasn't been properly tuned problems might arise. Yet you would have been using gasoline with an oxygen component for years allready.

From end users perspective there's no difference whether the fuel contains a little bit of ethanol or "MTBE" or equivalent.

[SD67]

Ethanol is extremely hygroscopic and as such water is miscible with it and it can have catastrophic effects on many engine components.

[Angus]

There is a problem with out good old gasoline.
You see, we're going to run out of it....

Anyway, why is the USA so hot on making ethanol from corn? As I understand it, it's not nearly the most efficient way for biofuel, and the only explanation I have heard for the mass is that the soil on large areas is unsuitable for many herbs because of exessive herbacide usage.

Anyone informed on this?

[SD67]

The only reason the USA is so "hot" on making ethanol from corn is because of the kickbacks provided by the farmers lobbyists.

[Xargos]

Hemp is the way to go.

[crockett]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Ethanol in gas causes roughly 30% less gas mileage.

Get your facts straight.. Corn ethanol gets worse gas milage. The crap they are trying to push on us because of the farmers lobbyist.  Not other forms such as sugar or algae oil.

[mora]

Originally posted by SD67
Ethanol is extremely hygroscopic and as such water is miscible with it and it can have catastrophic effects on many engine components.

Yes that's why it's added to gasoline in cold conditions on purpose. Less in these days, but it was the norm back in the carburator days. It never caused any problems.

In any normal operating enviroment there will be no problems.

[mora]

Originally posted by crockett
Get your facts straight.. Corn ethanol gets worse gas milage. The crap they are trying to push on us because of the farmers lobbyist.  Not other forms such as sugar or algae oil.

Ethanol is ethanol no matter what it's made from, and it contains about 30% less energy in VOLUME than gasoline. Of course his facts weren't straight as he claimed that when using E85 he would use the same amount of gasoline per mile.

[alskahawk]

Dont know about ethnanol harming the envoirment, but these ethanol plants are popping up all over. So it's probally the future whether we like it or not. I've been to a couple of dozen in the midwest and haven't seen much visual evidence of harm. Most of the plants such as corn etc. that are being removed are planted for removal. Its not like chopping down a hundred year old tree.
 I think the real problem is cows farting. Maybe we should quit feeding them beans. Or maybe we should legalize cow hunting!

[mora]

Originally posted by Xargos
Hemp is the way to go.

Yes. Alcohols should be forgotten and the focus should be in Bio-Diesel. It offers superior energy return. It can be made from anything and there's allready the equipment to use it, unlike ethanol.

[cpxxx]

The studies are also showing that the increased clearing of wild land to grow biofuels in areas like South America, the Phillipines, and Indonesia and the increased uses of heavy machinery to support these operations is creating a far higher carbon debt than the actual use of ethanol reduces.

That particular 'fact' has been wheeled out quite a lot lately. These people were clearing that land anyway for agricultural production, much to the detriment of the environment. Now apparently they are clearing the land for biofuel use. What's the difference?

I'm a bit suspicious that the same wording is appearing all over the place.  It smells like a campaign originating from a single source. Could the oil companies have a hand in this? They have a lot to lose if biofuel comes into greater use. Could there be an unholy alliance of greens and oil companies.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by mora
If you use a 2-Stroke engine which hasn't been properly tuned problems might arise. Yet you would have been using gasoline with an oxygen component for years allready.

From end users perspective there's no difference whether the fuel contains a little bit of ethanol or "MTBE" or equivalent.

It doesn't take a 2 stroke engine to see the degradation in performance and mileage once ethanol or MTBE has been added to the gasoline. In my more than a decade experiance with it in Arizona the change is noticable once the fuel is diluted with it. In the two most populous counties in Arizona either ethanol or MTBE must be added to gasoline to a 10% to 15% ratio from October through March. There is a minimum 10% drop in mileage. In addition to that some vehicles have other problems as the additive eats into the rubber portions of the fuel system components.


RPM,

How many production plants are there for switch grass in operation?

[lazs2]

I think that the "knee jerk" reaction that bohdi was talking about is the "we have to do something even if it is wrong" kind of thing that gave us poison water with MTBE and millions dead with a DDT ban.

GM and another company are partnering up to create a biofuel that works off grasses and plastics and old tires and lots of things.. it uses a new bacteria..

GM is quite serious..they claim 50% conversion of their fleet and the biofuel guys claim billions of gallons of fuel production capacity.

We will see..  I bet more on GM tho than osamabama and a tax.

lazs