ooooo you guys are gonna KILL me for this one

[lengro]

Originally posted by bozon
I once collided with a flying saucer, while in my P47 flying in a remote area off the map. I filmed it all, but somehow the .ahf file was corrupted.

rgr it happens all the time for me too - I think its because the flying saucer skin is not included in the hires-pack hence it has to be downloaded from the server. During the download the film-recorder looses some frames and goes bad.

[kilz]

I will try to remember to film it next time i bomb but i was bombing the other day (F6 Mode) and got rammed by an nme con, my bomber goes down and he is still there to kill me.

so in this case Whos FE would that have been?

[Lusche]

Originally posted by kilz
I will try to remember to film it next time i bomb but i was bombing the other day (F6 Mode) and got rammed by an nme con, my bomber goes down and he is still there to kill me.

so in this case Whos FE would that have been?

Read the messages in text buffer

"You have collided" -  collision on your FE
"XYZ has collided with you" - collision on your enemies FE

[HighGTrn]

Not jumping into the middle of this one way or the other but I do want to ask a question.  So many people jump on here and speak authoritatively about collisions, modeling etc...  I have rarely ever seen a post from an authority who actually codes this simulator.  In fact, I rarely ever see anyone of authority chime in when a collision blood bath thread gets started.

No disrespect to anyone but just because one is great at this game, do not presume you know what Hitech models and how they model.  I'm sure there are many factors and lag is probably a big one.

To say that the server has nothing to do with it is pretty ignorant if you truly understand clients/server architecture and TCP/IP.  For the server to have nothing to do with it means that there is a peer to peer connection with you and the person who collided with you.  I may be wrong but I do not think that kind of overhead is built into this game.

Next time I play, I will run a packet capture and purposely run into a person.  To truly see if the server has anything to do with this, I will post the packet capture file on the forum so one may see the communication with the server and what it is sending to my client (what you all call an FE).  You will need Ethereal or tcpdump to view it.

HighgTrn

[Bronk]

The game is played on YOUR front end. The server is nothing but an info transfer point.

Originally posted by hitech
Your understanding is completly incorect.

1. There is no fault in a collision. You detect/see a collision you take damage. I.E. You fly your plane, you occupy the same space and time with your plane as a plane you see on your screen you take damage.

2. The other player has the exact same rules as you. He occupies the same space at the same time with his plane and any other plane he sees on his computer he takes damage.

3. Damage is termermined by which piece of your plane occupied the same space and time with other planes you see.
4. The other persons collision detection has no effect what so ever on your collision detection.

Lag has nothing to do with this detection prosses. All lag does is makes what each person see's (or more precisly the Time varible of (Space and time)) be bigger , hence the bigger the lag the more different each persons world.

This lag is not just one persons lag but wrather the sum of the 2 computers lag. Hence when any 2 people look at eachother. They are both seeing the same amout of lag.


The only lag effect has nothing to do with dection but can effect kills awarded.

This effect is if both people detect a collision at the same moment in real time. This normaly only happens in a head on. Each person then applies there damage to themselevs and notifies the host. If this damage killed the pilot a kill would be awarded. Since this notification takes time to get to the host. The person with the slowest connect would be awarded a kill. Because as far as the host knows, the person with the slowest connection still is flying a perfectly good airplane.

Now if you realy wish to raise your ping times just so you could be awarded a kill in the case where both of you decided not to avoide the collision in a head on. Go right ahead.


HiTech

Good enough?

[Lusche]

Originally posted by HighGTrn
To say that the server has nothing to do with it is pretty ignorant if you truly understand clients/server architecture and TCP/IP.  For the server to have nothing to do with it means that there is a peer to peer connection with you and the person who collided with you.  I may be wrong but I do not think that kind of overhead is built into this game.

Collision checks are not made by the server, but only on each players computer. The server doesnt decide wether there was a collsion or anybody was hit by gunfire. He is relaying the data between the clients and takes notes of the results. Updating scores & statistics, changing objects status in arena and a whole lot more.

[lengro]

Originally posted by HighGTrn
Next time I play, I will run a packet capture and purposely run into a person.  To truly see if the server has anything to do with this, I will post the packet capture file on the forum so one may see the communication with the server and what it is sending to my client (what you all call an FE).  You will need Ethereal or tcpdump to view it.

HighgTrn

Ethereal will get you a dump of packets which contain numbers... how will you decide what those numbers mean without the source code?

This game can also be run as a LAN game hence no communication with any HTC servers. Every client has its code to determine local collision - and that is what it does.

[The Fugitive]

Originally posted by HighGTrn
Not jumping into the middle of this one way or the other but I do want to ask a question.  So many people jump on here and speak authoritatively about collisions, modeling etc...  I have rarely ever seen a post from an authority who actually codes this simulator.  In fact, I rarely ever see anyone of authority chime in when a collision blood bath thread gets started.

No disrespect to anyone but just because one is great at this game, do not presume you know what Hitech models and how they model.  I'm sure there are many factors and lag is probably a big one.

To say that the server has nothing to do with it is pretty ignorant if you truly understand clients/server architecture and TCP/IP.  For the server to have nothing to do with it means that there is a peer to peer connection with you and the person who collided with you.  I may be wrong but I do not think that kind of overhead is built into this game.

Next time I play, I will run a packet capture and purposely run into a person.  To truly see if the server has anything to do with this, I will post the packet capture file on the forum so one may see the communication with the server and what it is sending to my client (what you all call an FE).  You will need Ethereal or tcpdump to view it.

HighgTrn

would someone please quote the "podcast" from last years AH con where HT and Pyro went over the collision model. Will hearing it from their months help ya'll understand it better?  

[kilz]

Originally posted by Lusche
Read the messages in text buffer

"You have collided" -  collision on your FE
"XYZ has collided with you" - collision on your enemies FE

so as far as FE goes does FE mean where your looking IE looking thru bomb site or is it from the FE of your nose

[Lusche]

Originally posted by kilz
so as far as FE goes does FE mean where your looking IE looking thru bomb site or is it from the FE of your nose

Front End means just "your computer"

[kilz]

well technicaly my whole plane is my computer so your saying some jack *** can come up from under neath me and i can be the one at fault and get the damage

[Bronk]

Originally posted by kilz
well technicaly my whole plane is my computer so your saying some jack *** can come up from under neath me and i can be the one at fault and get the damage

Yup, you are responsible for maintaining separation.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by kilz
well technicaly my whole plane is my computer so your saying some jack *** can come up from under neath me and i can be the one at fault and get the damage

In a nutshell.. yes.

Again:
Collision on your computer/screen/FE: "You have collided" - you take damage
Collsision on HIS computer/screen/FE: "XYZ has collided with you" - he takes damage

If you see both messages, a collision happened on both computers/screens/FE'S each, both take damage.

One basic problem is than many people read "You have / XYZ has collided" messages as a kind of blaming -like "Your fault" or "His fault". But the program doesn't judge anything. It just states that (and on whose computer) a collision has happened.

[Hazard69]

Originally posted by kilz:
well technicaly my whole plane is my computer so your saying some jack *** can come up from under neath me and i can be the one at fault and get the damage

Also, keep in mind that on that some jack***'s monitor, he may be seeing you as 400 yards ahead or behind him, while on your FE, he was directly below you.

So, when he pulls up, on his FE he pulled up and passed 400 yards behind you, but on your FE he ended up hitting you.

I think Murdr has got a good in game screenie from 2 FEs depicting this......will try and look up a link.

[CAP1]

Originally posted by Hazard69
Also, keep in mind that on that some jack***'s monitor, he may be seeing you as 400 yards ahead or behind him, while on your FE, he was directly below you.

So, when he pulls up, on his FE he pulled up and passed 400 yards behind you, but on your FE he ended up hitting you.

I think Murdr has got a good in game screenie from 2 FEs depicting this......will try and look up a link.

but in theory, with what was quoted earlier from HiTech.......the delay is the sum of both computers......shouldn't this then be impossible?