Australia Launches Bid for F22 Fighter

[SD67]

Well once they (the Indonesians) run out of room they are going to have to start looking elsewhere and the wide open spaces afforded by Australia are viewed with some envy by these rapidly overcrowding countries. For as long as I can remember we have been turning away boatloads of them trying to sneak in to the county. They already have somewhat of a bad opinion of us due to our forces aiding the East Timorese in their battle for independence.

Our involvement in Vietnam began with the reign of King Bob the 1st through the short reign of King Harry (who did the Harold Holt on us), King Johnny the 2nd and King Billly the 2nd winding up with the short reign of King Gough shortly before the Guv stabbed him in the back. You can view a more comprehensive timeline here: http://www.vvaa.org.au/calendar.htm

[Rich46yo]

Australia is actually situated in an area of the world that is already a hotly contested resource zone. First there is Australia herself. She is chockful of strategic minerals such as  iron ore, nickel, bauxite/aluminium, copper, gold, silver, uranium, diamond, opal, zinc, coal, oil shale, petroleum, and natural gas.

                 In her region Lie some of the most hotly contested sight of offshore oil, most of all the Spratly Island area.

                Also the waters around her play host to the largest commercial transport and fishing fleets in the world. They are hotspots for pirates and drug dealers. And geographically Australia has been cursed with a huge and wild border area. Add to all this they have a history of conflict with the regions Totalitarian states.

               Why else would they build the most remarkable system of radar , JORN, the world has ever seen?

               So theres no question Australia needs a strong defense. And theres no question America needs her to. The question is do we go past the JSF and sell them the F-22? I myself say no.

             The thing is the F-22 will "win wars". Thats why we built it and thats why so many want it. It is the most vital war winning system we have right now. It is that undefeatable. With the F-22 we are guaranteed to achieve air dominance and you saw what that did to the Iraqis in the Gulf Wars.

[Treize69]

They're making a push for Rabaul. 65 years late.

[Halo]

Tough question.  The U.S. has always sold first line military equipment to its strongest allies, although sometimes the very latest updates or gizmos are not included.

Like the F-18 instead of the F-15, the F-35 sounds like a better fit for Australia than the F-22, at least initially, although the Aussies have preferred twin engines for a little more safety margin.
 
As world population growth continues, particularly in Asia, Australia and New Zealand need all they help they can get to maintain their sovereignty.

[Nilsen]

I can understand why the aussies wants the F22 over the JSF.

Everything speaks for it when you see that some of the neighbours are buying top russian stuff. The JSF was never intended for, nor will it be a great air-superiority fighter. I really hope we also skip that plane and go for one of the competitors or beg for the F22.

[bj229r]

Originally posted by john9001
what does Australia need F22's for?  You gona go to war with NZ?

Lol I had always thought that if we hadn't sold the F16 to so many folks, we would never have needed to BUILD the F22, (Does ANYTHING own the F16?)

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by bj229r
Lol I had always thought that if we hadn't sold the F16 to so many folks, we would never have needed to BUILD the F22, (Does ANYTHING own the F16?)

                 Yes. It gets more problematic when you add the awesome Yank support mechanism/systems behind it. But yes others build airplanes that would out fly and outfight the F-16. At the top of my head the French and the Russians have. And the Chinese have rolled out their shiney new F-16 clone. The world is quickly becoming populated with air forces that could bloody a F-16/15 equipped air force.

               Which is why we dont want anyone rolling out an F-22 clone.

                But nowadays the better flying aircraft doesnt necessarily win. The aircraft with the most LOS/stealth, better radars, better weapons, will most likely win. The stealth/radar/weapon/speed package behind the F-22 makes it the most dominant air defense fighter to ever take to the skies.

              It IS a War Winner. Just a dozen or two stationed off the south Islands of Japan changes the balance of power in the region tremendously.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
Australia is actually situated in an area of the world that is already a hotly contested resource zone. First there is Australia herself. She is chockful of strategic minerals such as  iron ore, nickel, bauxite/aluminium, copper, gold, silver, uranium, diamond, opal, zinc, coal, oil shale, petroleum, and natural gas.

                 In her region Lie some of the most hotly contested sight of offshore oil, most of all the Spratly Island area.

                Also the waters around her play host to the largest commercial transport and fishing fleets in the world. They are hotspots for pirates and drug dealers. And geographically Australia has been cursed with a huge and wild border area. Add to all this they have a history of conflict with the regions Totalitarian states.

               Why else would they build the most remarkable system of radar , JORN, the world has ever seen?

               So theres no question Australia needs a strong defense. And theres no question America needs her to. The question is do we go past the JSF and sell them the F-22? I myself say no.

             The thing is the F-22 will "win wars". Thats why we built it and thats why so many want it. It is the most vital war winning system we have right now. It is that undefeatable. With the F-22 we are guaranteed to achieve air dominance and you saw what that did to the Iraqis in the Gulf Wars.

Seriously, no one should be this sold on the F-22 yet.  I guess you forgot that the Swedish Gripen recently waxed the F-22 21-0 in dogfights over Alaska.  The Gripen didn't lose a single aircraft, in combat or in operational readiness.  You'll say it's just practice...but you practice how you play, when it comes to playing war.

I'm not sold on the F-22 being so rock solid.  A generation 4.5 aircraft beat out the generation 5 F-22.  So, it's either the aircraft or the training...which do you want to fix it on?

[Rich46yo]

Originally posted by MORAY37
Seriously, no one should be this sold on the F-22 yet.  I guess you forgot that the Swedish Gripen recently waxed the F-22 21-0 in dogfights over Alaska.  The Gripen didn't lose a single aircraft, in combat or in operational readiness.  You'll say it's just practice...but you practice how you play, when it comes to playing war.

I'm not sold on the F-22 being so rock solid.  A generation 4.5 aircraft beat out the generation 5 F-22.  So, it's either the aircraft or the training...which do you want to fix it on?

                     In actual combat the Gripen will never even see the F-22, or even know its there, before its destroyed.

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Originally posted by Nilsen
I can understand why the aussies wants the F22 over the JSF.

Everything speaks for it when you see that some of the neighbours are buying top russian stuff. The JSF was never intended for, nor will it be a great air-superiority fighter. I really hope we also skip that plane and go for one of the competitors or beg for the F22.

Agreed, but honestly, i say we send them everything we can.
18's 15's 22's JFS's the works.
maby some bombs and missiles to go with them.


Nothin's to good or bad for our aussie friends.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by MORAY37
Seriously, no one should be this sold on the F-22 yet.  I guess you forgot that the Swedish Gripen recently waxed the F-22 21-0 in dogfights over Alaska.  The Gripen didn't lose a single aircraft, in combat or in operational readiness.  You'll say it's just practice...but you practice how you play, when it comes to playing war.

I'm not sold on the F-22 being so rock solid.  A generation 4.5 aircraft beat out the generation 5 F-22.  So, it's either the aircraft or the training...which do you want to fix it on?

I'd like to see a link to that.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by MORAY37
Seriously, no one should be this sold on the F-22 yet.  I guess you forgot that the Swedish Gripen recently waxed the F-22 21-0 in dogfights over Alaska.  The Gripen didn't lose a single aircraft, in combat or in operational readiness.  You'll say it's just practice...but you practice how you play, when it comes to playing war.

I'm not sold on the F-22 being so rock solid.  A generation 4.5 aircraft beat out the generation 5 F-22.  So, it's either the aircraft or the training...which do you want to fix it on?

Even if the Gripen is on our shortlist for the upcomming fighter investment i seriously doubt that. I think you may have gotten those numbers reversed so unless you can find some hard facts to back up that 21-0 in the Gripens favor i would say that you are mistaken.


Off topic... I read somewere (janes?) that the actual cost of the F22 will be very similar to, or even slightly cheaper than the F35 due to many factors even if it is more advanced. Maybe its due to a less problematic development process and the fact that they didnt have to develop 3 versions. I am pretty sure tho that the F35 is further behind schedule than the F22 was and that always adds to the cost of the end product. As far as i know the development cost of the F22 has already been payed for by the first batch of ordered planes and if further are made they will be "cheaper"

If i sat on the bag of money for the USAF i would sertainly make sure that the F22 kept rolling off the line at the expence of the F35

[bj229r]

Originally posted by Bodhi
I'd like to see a link to that.

I know in mock fights F22's regularly eat several F15's for lunch simultaneously

[Elfie]

Originally posted by MORAY37
Seriously, no one should be this sold on the F-22 yet.  I guess you forgot that the Swedish Gripen recently waxed the F-22 21-0 in dogfights over Alaska.  The Gripen didn't lose a single aircraft, in combat or in operational readiness.  You'll say it's just practice...but you practice how you play, when it comes to playing war.

I'm not sold on the F-22 being so rock solid.  A generation 4.5 aircraft beat out the generation 5 F-22.  So, it's either the aircraft or the training...which do you want to fix it on?

Seriously, I think that has been debunked here before. You have the numbers backwards.

Sure, the Gripen is a sweet fighter and so is the Eurofighter Typhoon and the French Rafael. We also can't forget the Russian Su-34, that one is darn good as well. And all of these are much sexier looking than the F-22.

Nice video of a Gripen demo flight. Title says its a dogfight demo, but it just looks like a normal demo flight to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErbKrV19Dd0

[Elfie]

Originally posted by bj229r
I know in mock fights F22's regularly eat several F15's for lunch simultaneously

I've heard of as many as 5 or 6 F-15's vs one F-22 and the F-15's lose.