Author Topic: trickle down  (Read 1397 times)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2008, 07:24:58 PM »
A tax break is NOT a subsidy, nor is it a hand out. It's just the government NOT taking money that did not BELONG to the government to begin with.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

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Offline WWhiskey

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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2008, 08:04:20 PM »
Crocket

so why would they not charge more ,make more, then pay more, what is to stop them? they are in bussines just like you or me, they make money and if you tax those dollars, they will try to recover that profit elsewhere, there only source of income is you and me so in the end yes the profit margin is less but the gross is greater so they still get your money, only now they have helped the gov. get more of our money  in taxes and we thought it was a good idea!
this is not a republican scare tactic, this is reality!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 08:07:32 PM by WWhiskey »
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Offline ROC

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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2008, 09:56:12 PM »
ahem

Quote
As Skyrock said, they have made record profits since Katrina.


The refineries and drilling rigs were put back in production Days after Katrina.  

The Government still can't get out of their mess down there.

Yeah, taxes didn't do squat and those miserable profit mongering greedy bastages kept the fuel flowing.

What, you think that moronic mayor could have handled it better?

Taxes are taking money from Productive Areas and redistributing it to into areas that do not produce.

I own a newer mustang, full size 3/4 ton chevy van purely for recreation, a toyota camry, and a motorcycle.  I drive hundreds of miles Each and Every Day.

I couldn't care less what the gas costs.  It's part of what I do.  If I spent my day crying about the cost of gas I would spend most of my time worrying instead of being rather comfortable.  If you are concerned about something as minor as the cost of fuel, rethink your efforts, don't blame someone successful.

I fight daily to insure that what I, and those around me, earn remain under My and Their control, because I intend to do with my profits as I wish, I know better what I want to do than any government who thinks they are owed what I built.  I will pay taxes towards First, defense of this nation, then Education.  After that, fuel taxes should pay for Roads, property taxes take care of levies, development fees handle expansion of infrastructure.

Anything after that is waste.  You cannot create a job simply to pay someone off and expect a positive return.  You cannot take a productive dollar and hand it off to an unproductive person and expect that dollar to grow.  Katrina is the single biggest example of what should have been a major economic boon turned into a fiasco.  A poor underdeveloped area was wiped out.  The job opportunities to rebuild that region are staggering, in and of itself could easily lead that area out of an economic downturn.  But wait, let's not get carried away, the Government needs to jump in and divert productive monies into wasteful irrelevant programs.  

I was laid off in 91 from a 55k per year job.  In 91 at my age, that was good money.  I worked 3 part time jobs after that, gal I worked with went on welfare.

Over the following 2 years she plopped out 2 more kids, her 14 year old had a kid, and kept drawing welfare.  I worked.  I ended up starting a business, and Closed it due to the taxes I owed exceeded the income I could draw for my own efforts.

I worked, got penalized.  She squirted kids and reaped the benefits. I have no sympathy, absolutely no support of the tax system as it stands.  I could have employed myself and 1 other person, in a recession, yet the tax burden alone told me it was simply not worth working that hard to pay for someone else.  You will never convince me differently.  

The problem isn't the corporations paying their fair share.  The problem is some lazy morons think someone else, like me, Owes them what I earned.  Those aren't my kids, I never played in her sand box.  I find it wholly Appalling that I paid while she sat, My wife and family went without because I refused to look to someone else.

You complain about some corp making a profit like it has anything what so ever to do with your existence.

The "problem" is people expect far more than they even remotely deserve, and more and more people are buying into it.

Get this, at some point, you that support these concepts are going to have to accept Your lives being defined by someone else.  You will Not Like This.  Quit asking for it.

You are being led around like stupid sheep with feel good sound bites.

There are wolves waiting for you, better open your eyes.  Those wolves are hoping beyond hope that you really buy into the evil corporate empire line.  Geez people, I know you are smarter than this.

Come on.  I've hear people saying they are canceling their vacations because of the cost of fuel.

700 Mile trip is $28.00 more today than it was in 2005. Same trip I make twice a year, every year.  So Friggin What!  Chump change for crying out loud.  You would still have made the trip.  28 bucks??  Honestly?  

Now you are honestly concerned, and buying into the national tragedy of the evil empire over chump change?  Guess what they do with that money.  Spend it, buying stuff someone else makes,  Save it, making money available for loans that support, say, your car loan perhaps..  Credit card..  You guys better be careful what you ask for, you are liable to get it.
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2008, 10:01:27 PM »
The government makes more per gallon of gas in taxes then the oil companies do in profit.  For most states, often times the government makes at least 3-4x more.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
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Offline crockett

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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2008, 11:14:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by WWhiskey
Crocket

so why would they not charge more ,make more, then pay more, what is to stop them? they are in bussines just like you or me, they make money and if you tax those dollars, they will try to recover that profit elsewhere, there only source of income is you and me so in the end yes the profit margin is less but the gross is greater so they still get your money, only now they have helped the gov. get more of our money  in taxes and we thought it was a good idea!
this is not a republican scare tactic, this is reality!


First off oil is sold as a commodity the oil companies don't set the price the market does. The only way the oil companies can effect the price is by limiting the supply. Big news they do that already.. why yea think we are paying double the amount as when Clinton was in office.

$180 million a year per oil company is not even a drop in the bucket for these oil companies. You guys are screaming like thats going to raise the gas price by $5 a gal or something.

Even in the wildest dreams that it did raise the price because of this tax (which would be illegal) .. It wouldn't even equate to .01 cent. Even if it was a cent it would take 100 gallons to equal a dollar. Do you burn 100 gallons a week or even a month? Even if you burned 100 gallons a week it would cost you $4 a month is that going to bankrupt you?

This is a non issue other than a sad attempt to bash a Democratic Congress for doing what should have been done a long time ago. A industry that is the richest industry in this country and the world, does not need "all" the govt subsidies we give them. When a industry can profit 123 billion in a year it's time to remove the govt tit from their mouth.

Meanwhile the price of gas has gone up 100% under Bush admin yet you guys are crying about "maybe" a single penny per gallon. I don't feel like doing the number crunching but I wouldn't be surprised if you added that 18billion to the amount of fuel sold over the next 10 years. I bet it wouldn't even equate to .0001 of a cent.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 11:16:33 PM by crockett »
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Offline ROC

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« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2008, 11:17:55 PM »
Quote
When a industry can profit 123 billion in a year it's time to remove the govt tit from their mouth.


Allowing them to Keep their money is Them sucking on a tit?

Ok :rofl So who's sucking if it's taken away?

You do understand, don't you, that you don't have to buy their gas?  Use the Chinese model, ride a bike.  Walk.  Take a bus.  No one is Forcing anyone to use the fuel.
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline crockett

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« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2008, 11:26:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ROC
Allowing them to Keep their money is Them sucking on a tit?

Ok :rofl So who's sucking if it's taken away?

You do understand, don't you, that you don't have to buy their gas?  Use the Chinese model, ride a bike.  Walk.  Take a bus.  No one is Forcing anyone to use the fuel.


Consider it cheap cost of labor for using the United States military to fight wars on behaf of big oil's profits. You think we would have our military in the middle east if there wasn't oil there?
"strafing"

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2008, 07:21:46 AM »
Since when is it illegal to raise your prices because the government raised your taxes and in so doing raised your cost of doing business? Show me the statute. Because EVERY business in the COUNTRY is violating it. IF it exists. But I've been owning and/or operating businesses for almost 30 years, and I've never seen nor heard of such.

We're not crying about the increase of the cost of gas, we're angry that the government has decided to pick our pockets again and tell us they aren't doing it.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline WWhiskey

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« Reply #38 on: February 29, 2008, 09:28:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
First off oil is sold as a commodity the oil companies don't set the price the market does. The only way the oil companies can effect the price is by limiting the supply. Big news they do that already.. why yea think we are paying double the amount as when Clinton was in office.

$180 million a year per oil company is not even a drop in the bucket for these oil companies. You guys are screaming like thats going to raise the gas price by $5 a gal or something.

Even in the wildest dreams that it did raise the price because of this tax (which would be illegal) .. It wouldn't even equate to .01 cent. Even if it was a cent it would take 100 gallons to equal a dollar. Do you burn 100 gallons a week or even a month?
-------------------------------------
Reply:Try 500 to 700 per week
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 Even if you burned 100 gallons a week it would cost you $4 a month is that going to bankrupt you?
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Reply:$28
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This is a non issue other than a sad attempt to bash a Democratic Congress for doing what should have been done a long time ago.
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Reply:
about 7 years ago no one in this country had ever seen $2.00 fuel, as the price rose the dem.s said they wanted to tax big oil,and did too some extent, the result was an almost instant rise too @3.00 fuel as well as a major rise in the price of natural gas and propane!
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 A industry that is the richest industry in this country and the world, does not need "all" the govt subsidies we give them. When a industry can profit 123 billion in a year it's time to remove the govt tit from their mouth.
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Reply:
we give them some of those subsidies so they will drill in this part of the world and pay the taxes here, when they could easely go to other parts of the world and tell us and our taxes to go to heck. why would anyone want to pay tax when they didnt have too? why would they want too drill here when it costs more to do so?
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Meanwhile the price of gas has gone up 100% under Bush admin
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Reply:
like you said the market sets the price not the pres. but yes they can raise the price of fuel by adding another tax too it, and the market will not care
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yet you guys are crying about "maybe" a single penny per gallon.
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Reply:
the fed makes more in  profits on a gallon of fuel than the oil company!, why dont we say enough is enough to the gov.  you all hear about the obscene profits of big oil yet no one says anything about the obscene profits of big gov.
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 I don't feel like doing the number crunching but I wouldn't be surprised if you added that 18billion to the amount of fuel sold over the next 10 years. I bet it wouldn't even equate to .0001 of a cent.

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Reply:
world consumption of oil is127.8 million barrels per day, or 1480 barrels per second. the U.S. consumes 19.6 million barrels per day, so yes in 100 days the tax debt could be paid, but the speculators in the market will drive the price up just because they can, making the oil company more money while taking in your taxes for the gov.
my point is taxes will not help anything, they will only cost us all more of our own money, then the oil company will make interest on that money while they hold it for the gov., then the gov. will make interest on it while they hold it  finally we will get it back and it will be worth less, lets not give the gov. anymore of our money
every penny is important to me, my bussiness runs on fuel, my profit margin is effected by the price of fuel and i dont like anybody trying to effect my profit margin for no better reason than too get even with big oil
so why do you think you need to take   even a penny out of my pocket? thats what you are saying , thats what you mean, well its only a penny for you and A penny for someone else who has a pet project and some other gov. official with big dreams wants a dime a dollar, pretty soon i have lost my dollar a penny at a time because you thought you knew how to spend my money better than me! thanks bud
Flying since tour 71.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2008, 09:47:41 AM »
I believe that crock it wants to nationalize big business.  

I am all for letting anyone... anyone.. keep more of the money they earn by lowering taxes.   every bit that someone else doesn't pay helps me in the long run.

lazs

Offline crockett

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« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2008, 01:36:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Since when is it illegal to raise your prices because the government raised your taxes and in so doing raised your cost of doing business? Show me the statute. Because EVERY business in the COUNTRY is violating it. IF it exists. But I've been owning and/or operating businesses for almost 30 years, and I've never seen nor heard of such.

We're not crying about the increase of the cost of gas, we're angry that the government has decided to pick our pockets again and tell us they aren't doing it.


How exactly is the govt picking your pockets? The govt didn't raise the cost of gas. For the love a ****** god.. They raised a "earnings" tax.. Do you understand WTF earnings are? It's a tax on "their" profits.

Do you understand the concept of paying tax on profits? Do you understand you can not legally pass the tax burden onto your consumer? Do you understrand these companies have to disclose public financials?

Do you understand that in 2005 138,142,791,000 gallons of gas were sold in the United states? This "tax" is a "grand total" of 18 billion over 10 years from 5 companies. Do you understand that's' not even .0001 of a cent per gallon?

Can you freaking grasp that concept? Even if they somehow had a way to dictate the price of oil to make up for that. Do you think .0001 of a cent is going to raise the price of gas so much that you go bankrupt?

You guys crying about "maybe" a .0001 cent increase like it's the end of the world. Yet all this whining that's going on all over the net will likely rasie the price 50 cents.

It's like talking to a freaking wall I swear..
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 01:47:43 PM by crockett »
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Offline crockett

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« Reply #41 on: February 29, 2008, 01:41:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that crock it wants to nationalize big business.  

I am all for letting anyone... anyone.. keep more of the money they earn by lowering taxes.   every bit that someone else doesn't pay helps me in the long run.

lazs


I believe some of you are as dumb as a box of rocks. But hey what else is new.. :lol
"strafing"

Offline crockett

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« Reply #42 on: February 29, 2008, 01:46:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by WWhiskey
-----------------

Reply:
world consumption of oil is127.8 million barrels per day, or 1480 barrels per second. the U.S. consumes 19.6 million barrels per day, so yes in 100 days the tax debt could be paid, but the speculators in the market will drive the price up just because they can, making the oil company more money while taking in your taxes for the gov.

my point is taxes will not help anything, they will only cost us all more of our own money, then the oil company will make interest on that money while they hold it for the gov., then the gov. will make interest on it while they hold it  finally we will get it back and it will be worth less, lets not give the gov. anymore of our money

every penny is important to me, my bussiness runs on fuel, my profit margin is effected by the price of fuel and i dont like anybody trying to effect my profit margin for no better reason than too get even with big oil
so why do you think you need to take   even a penny out of my pocket? thats what you are saying , thats what you mean, well its only a penny for you and A penny for someone else who has a pet project and some other gov. official with big dreams wants a dime a dollar, pretty soon i have lost my dollar a penny at a time because you thought you knew how to spend my money better than me! thanks bud



Speculators are going to drive the price up because of all the whining here in the O club and everywhere else. Anyone that actually crunched the numbers will have already figured out this isn't going to drive the cost of fuel up.

All the people crying about it on the other hand will likely have an effect on the price. So look in the mirror and blame your self.
"strafing"

Offline Vipermann

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« Reply #43 on: February 29, 2008, 03:15:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
How exactly is the govt picking your pockets? The govt didn't raise the cost of gas. For the love a ****** god.. They raised a "earnings" tax.. Do you understand WTF earnings are? It's a tax on "their" profits.

Do you understand the concept of paying tax on profits? Do you understand you can not legally pass the tax burden onto your consumer? Do you understrand these companies have to disclose public financials?

Do you understand that in 2005 138,142,791,000 gallons of gas were sold in the United states? This "tax" is a "grand total" of 18 billion over 10 years from 5 companies. Do you understand that's' not even .0001 of a cent per gallon?

Can you freaking grasp that concept? Even if they somehow had a way to dictate the price of oil to make up for that. Do you think .0001 of a cent is going to raise the price of gas so much that you go bankrupt?

You guys crying about "maybe" a .0001 cent increase like it's the end of the world. Yet all this whining that's going on all over the net will likely rasie the price 50 cents.

It's like talking to a freaking wall I swear..



The government raised the amount of taxes they are taking from the oil companies, thus the oil companies raise the price to compensate.

Your argument about taxing earnings is laughable. It's like me telling an employee who wants a raise they should be happy I don't give them one cause they'll pay less taxes.

Yea there's a wall in here alright....
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Offline bustr

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« Reply #44 on: February 29, 2008, 04:06:33 PM »
I just read the bill that passed the House. It is a tax hike of only one industry working in the United States. Not a corporate hike across the board for all industries.

That is by any american definition of fair play descrimitory. The bill was passed by the Dem majority in the House. The senate is trying to fast track it to keep the republicans from having any input on it.

They are confiscating money from the Oil companies to give to other industries that may never make a profit or survive as sound competitive entities. In essence they are forcing the Oil Companies to finance other companies research and tax credits sight unseen. There is no language in the bill making it law that the Oil companies cannot pass this along at the pumps to make up the loss. Socialism in action.

This is the Dems raiding the Oil companies to pay for their pet projects. Government Theft under the guise of law.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.