I predict...

[Grits]

I wont get into the Axis vs Allies fight, but I want to comment on the AvA as a whole.

Some people have an idealized and unrealistic expectation of what the AvA is. Sure, you CAN get 1v1s, but sometimes you are gonna get ganged. Sometimes you can get up without getting vulched, sometimes you get vulched mercilessly. Sometimes the sides are even and sometimes they are way off. Ever since I started flying in the AvA/CT 4+ years ago it has been that way. Because its regular population was small, everyone knew each other and ganging and vulching happened less, but it did happen just like the MA. It is not now, and never has been, a chivalrous utopia. If you are expecting it to be a chivalrous utopia you are setting the arena and yourself up for failure.

As for HOs, its a non-issue. If you fly into someone's sights FROM ANY ANGLE expect to get shot. If you fly into an enemy's sights from any angle expect him to pull the trigger. If he doesnt fine, you got lucky. If he does get over it, YOU are the one that allowed yourself to get in a position where he could hit you.

[Larry]

TK, the whole thing is a bunch of crap.  How often do Allies vulch a field?  Honestly. 

Every single night that Iv loged on I see an axis field being vulched. Most of the time a goon never even comes. Unlike with the axis if theres a horde over your base vulching theres a dam good chance we have goons on the way. We've found thats its alot easier to just drop the ack and VH then cap the field then drop all the hangers just to see them pop before the troops get there.



Vf4nik8r I HATE how the arena is now. I miss the old ava. Sure there were really low numbers, but you knew every time you were ganna have a great fight no matter what. Iv said this in the past numbers only bring dweebyness and thats all this is. Only reason Im still playing in here is because Iv been playing the CT/AVA since almost its start. Iv seen its ups and downs and stuck with it. Im just praying that we can get our little sand box back one day.

[transam1]

I agree with you Grits. The arena will never be totally chivalrous as you said. But before the changes I can say I never once got vultched on a runway. Sure I got my share of Ho's and things but you already explained that problem. Again I don't think the problem is with the players but the objectives. The best part about the arena before was that there was no real overlying competition to win a war.

Trukill I thought you might feel that way and couldn't agree more.



      Vf4nik8r

      VF-31 Tomcatters

[Delirium]

And this crap is different from the MA in what way?

[transam1]

  Exactly the point Delirium.

[Grits]

And this crap is different from the MA in what way?

It isnt different Del, and it never has been. You may be more likely to get an uninterrupted 1v1, or you might find a guy who wont vulch you occasionally, you will get ch200 trash talk, like I said its not a chivalrous utopia. I feel people have built the image of the AvA into something it can never live up too. It is somewhat different than the MA because you are likely to know every single player on both sides, but gangs, vulches, and HOs happen just like everywhere else. If someone comes in expecting anything else, they are destined to be disappointed due to unrealistic expectations.

Bottom line is, enjoy the AvA for what it is. It is a roughly historic battle using as close as possible opposing aircraft and GVs as the AH inventory will allow. It is nothing more than that and every other "bad" thing that happens in the MA can and will happen there too, sometimes less often, sometimes more often.

[OldBull]

I wont get into the Axis vs Allies fight, but I want to comment on the AvA as a whole.

Some people have an idealized and unrealistic expectation of what the AvA is. Sure, you CAN get 1v1s, but sometimes you are gonna get ganged. Sometimes you can get up without getting vulched, sometimes you get vulched mercilessly. Sometimes the sides are even and sometimes they are way off. Ever since I started flying in the AvA/CT 4+ years ago it has been that way. Because its regular population was small, everyone knew each other and ganging and vulching happened less, but it did happen just like the MA. It is not now, and never has been, a chivalrous utopia. If you are expecting it to be a chivalrous utopia you are setting the arena and yourself up for failure.

As for HOs, its a non-issue. If you fly into someone's sights FROM ANY ANGLE expect to get shot. If you fly into an enemy's sights from any angle expect him to pull the trigger. If he doesnt fine, you got lucky. If he does get over it, YOU are the one that allowed yourself to get in a position where he could hit you.

Amen !!, to that, Grits, I couldn't agree more.
 OldBull
XO Avengers Squad

 

[captain1ma]

Id like to second that motion!!

[Geophro]

First, let me say that I am really impressed by the effort put into the AvA arena to turn it into the historical Axis vs Allies area that it was envisioned to be.  There is a feel there that is not present in the MA’s.  I expect that this is the future, and for good reason.

With that said, there WAS a time in the recent past where AvA was an honorable DA with a rolling planeset.  200 was filled with almost nothing other than humor and advice.  The only fights more than 2v1 were 3v3s or 4v4s that were fought to their conclusions.  Most fights were worth the time to get there (unless you ended up fighting me, that was mostly a waste of ammo, but I learned from every loss), and that time investment was very short.

Sure there were always a few gamers worried about their score that could not be educated, and a few new people that had yet to be enlightened, but this was the vast minority.  The only real drawback to the arena at this time was the pitifully low population.  I imagine that there was also a time in the more distant past where things were worse that may be causing the confusion.

Regardless, the utopian sand box did exist.  I was there.  Several others were as well.  Anyone who had the misfortune not to experience it missed out.

I support the retention and continued development of the current AvA, but I would also like my memory of the (not so) old DA AvA added back as another arena.

[Grits]

Geophro, I must admit that I have not played AH much (less than on night a month) in the last year so I might have missed what you describe. However, knowing the regular AvA/CT player base many of whom I've fought with and against for over 4 years, I think it is unlikely it was a good as you remember. I could be totally talking out my arse (and it wouldnt be the first time either) but I doubt it. I am not saying it was a hell hole, but neither was it a "shining City on the Hill".

Consider too that what I personally thought was a perfect AvA was an honorable DA with a rolling realistic plane set. I had little desire to have GVs, bombers, base captures, or anything much beyond a base-to-base furball. When the AvA was that, what I thought was perfect for my desires, it had its lowest participation ever. I have slowly come to the conclusion that the AvA has to appeal to more than the base-to-base furball types (like me) to be successful. It has to appeal to the buff pilots, the base capture squads, the GV guys in addition to its traditional core.

I didnt like the idea of the "War" when it was first rolled out, as a matter of fact I hated it. But, I kept my opinions to myself and waited to see how it would work. I think there is no doubt that it has been a success and as much as I would selfishly like it to go back to the historic DA furball it used to be, I hope for the sake of the greater good of the arena it does not.

[KONG1]

It isnt different Del, and it never has been. You may be more likely to get an uninterrupted 1v1, or you might find a guy who wont vulch you occasionally, you will get ch200 trash talk, like I said its not a chivalrous utopia. I feel people have built the image of the AvA into something it can never live up too. It is somewhat different than the MA because you are likely to know every single player on both sides, but gangs, vulches, and HOs happen just like everywhere else. If someone comes in expecting anything else, they are destined to be disappointed due to unrealistic expectations.

Bottom line is, enjoy the AvA for what it is. It is a roughly historic battle using as close as possible opposing aircraft and GVs as the AH inventory will allow. It is nothing more than that and every other "bad" thing that happens in the MA can and will happen there too, sometimes less often, sometimes more often.

Give it up Grits. You're trying to explain shades-of-gray to people with black-and-white thinking. People who are say, intellectually challenged, have to divide reality into convenient little piles. Good-Bad, Black-White. I don't even like the shades-of-gray because reality is a infinite continuum between countless points, not just two. All this is way to complicated and confusing for the average brain.

So to these dullards if something happens occasionally it is the same as when it happens constantly. Maybe if you spent a week smacking them up side the head once a day, then spent a week smacking them once a minute they may (may) get the point but I doubt it. The ensuing concussion would just exasperate the problems they already have.

 

[Arlo]

I wasnt saying I was out numbered when I was flying the Ju88s I said axis were out numbered. It was 10 to 24 then most of them were attacking other bases. You want something that isnt proves my point how about this.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/TKvshorde.ahf

I was flying my 190A8 at alt because the sortie before I came in with a 109F and got ganged by the same guys in this film. I wasnt going to let that happen again, so I went in with speed and alt so I can pick the weakest planes from the horde. Two made the mistake of going nose to nose with me, they both lost then whined about it on 200. Another two made the mistake of landing/taking while Im in a killing frenzy. I got away from the blob of red after I got my seven kills and landed on a CV a few miles out. Theres no question in my mind that they all would have ganged me if I got slow. Is that enough proof for you?

Musta been an anomoly. Most of us weren't ... in the air.

[Arlo]

Sorry, Arlo, truth is that I thought you were someone else.  I had just spent the past five or ten minutes trying to get a plane up in the air and more than a mile from base, but a pair of vulchers were (successfully) doing their level best to prevent that.  There aren't many things in AH that anger me, but vulching does, particularly when there's no goon on the way and it's just being done for kicks.  Figured you were one of them coming back for more.

I confirm the essential points of your story.  You did a fine job of staying above one (two?) other Axis guys and me, and I was pretty sure that TK had inflicted a pilot wound on you with his Ju88 7.7s.  For the reasons set forth above, I just wanted to ensure you didn't make it home.  Felt bad (not terrible, mind you, but bad) when I learned I'd made a mistake.  "Ox-bow Incident" in modern times.

- oldman

None of what I posted was meant as a slam at you. But I'm fair certain you know. It was just the one particular moment in time TK brought up as a fine example of how overwhelmed he felt as an Axis pilot and the best thing I could think of to show him how perspective can vary is to show him everything that was 10k around me during that moment. Alas ... he has dialup and can't be bothered trading pics ... only posting his own.

[Gulp]

It suffers the same situation the MA does. You can't have the objective be base taking and have a 1v1 arena at the same time.  Base taking requires some degree of supressing the enemy with numbers, aggressive airfield capping (aka vuching, picking, ganging), porking, or some combination of these.

If we want an arena where good dogfights are the norm, base capture needs to be no part of it.  The furball area in the DA is the right layout, but needs AVA plane sets, written gameplay expectations, & regulars that politely mentor and encourage others to adhere to the expected gameplay.  Just the name "furball" is the #1 reason many feel it is an "anything goes" area.  

1/2 the arena looking for 1v1 dogfights while the other 1/2 is doing whatever is needed to capture bases only results in what we have.  The dogfighters are mad at getting ganged, picked and vuched, and the base takers are mad that no one is helping gain or defend real estate.  

That said, it's still fun.  My first time in the AVA about 6mo ago was a blast.  Most everyone was asking before joining a fight, vets were explaining the deal to new guys and 200 was 90% polite and good-natured.  It jumped in there few more times and it was hit or miss.  One thing is for sure, if base taking and winning the war remains an objective, the AVA will never be an arena to expect good 1v1 fights.

I would love having an arena where it was realistic plane sets, the emphasis was on air combat only, the expected gameplay was laid out in writing, and it was still a bit unstructured so that you have to watch your back for that 2nd enemy.  I've seen it a few nights and it was fun.  Expecting that from the current MA or AVA set-ups is unrealistic.


Aspen

[captain1ma]

 One thing is for sure, if base taking and winning the war remains an objective, the AVA will never be an arena to expect good 1v1 fights.


Aspen

Where were you last night?? im sure the other guys will tell you it was a blast!