Author Topic: Realistic Ordance Options  (Read 1666 times)

Offline Strip

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2008, 03:25:51 PM »
Krusty.....The skip bombs were used against anything hardened from torpedo attack. Harbors, shipyards, ports, submarine pens, and anchored ships.

So while yes we dont have dams....we do have other targets that could be attacked. I agree that there are much better options than a skip bomb tho.

Offline Krusty

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2008, 03:49:06 PM »
He wasn't talking skip bombs. He was talking dambuster bombs. These had a reverse spin, hit the dam wall, and "rolled down" the wall to the bottom of the dam before detonating.

Skip bombing was done with normal bombs. It just has yet to be modeled in AH. They might or might not have had some sort of delayed fuze, I don't recall.

Not at all like what he described.

Offline Bronk

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2008, 04:07:34 PM »

Yea that's the ticket.
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Offline Elfie

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2008, 04:15:14 PM »
Quote
Time delay fuzes for noe attacks. This option I like the least for a few reasons. I think the stukalancs would have a field day using these. If you require a minimum alt to arm you dont need time delay. So while effective in real life it would have some drawbacks in AH. Perk loadout?

Time delay fuzes don't remove the requirement for a weapon to travel a certain distance to arm the fuze. The M904 and M905 bomb fuzes I worked with required that the weapon travel a certain distance. The vanes on the fuzes had to rotate a certain number of times to arm the fuze, adding a delay element to either/both fuzes did not change that requirement. The delay element only delayed the weapon detonation after impact. How long that delay was, depended on which delay element you used.
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In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2008, 04:17:32 PM »
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Skip bombing was done with normal bombs. It just has yet to be modeled in AH. They might or might not have had some sort of delayed fuze, I don't recall.

Fuzes most likely had to be delayed or the bomb detonates on the first impact instead of *skipping*
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Strip

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2008, 04:46:38 PM »
Krusty to my knowledge skip bombing is NOT done with with normal bombs. The very shape of most bombs would make this impossible. Id be very curious to see any data say normal bombs, like we have in AH2, were skipped across water. Also dambusting bombs were skip bombs. Either spheres or barrels were (as you said) spun backwards so that they skipped across the water over nets and other protection measures.

I think tho that we are arguing over a piece ordnance that will NEVER ever get seen in AH2.

Strip(er)

Offline Bronk

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2008, 04:49:33 PM »
Krusty to my knowledge skip bombing is NOT done with with normal bombs. The very shape of most bombs would make this impossible. Id be very curious to see any data say normal bombs, like we have in AH2, were skipped across water. Also dambusting bombs were skip bombs. Either spheres or barrels were (as you said) spun backwards so that they skipped across the water over nets and other protection measures.

I think tho that we are arguing over a piece ordnance that will NEVER ever get seen in AH2.

Strip(er)

Wanna bet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing

 Resume of Skip Bombing by Hq. 43rd Bomb Gp (H)

9 March 1943

1.     General

        Skip bombing is a low-altitude bombing attack that has been successfully used against naval targets. It consists of a string of from two to four bombs dropped from such an altitude and distance from the target that a complete miss is improbable. Unless the target is of such importance that heavy losses can be accepted this method of bombing should be attempted with large heavy aircraft only at night and under most favorable weather conditions. The attack should be delivered with the idea in mind of securing a maximum of surprise and should not be repeated against the same targets too often. Skip bombing attacks should be made with the target outlined against light of either flares or the moon, and in such a location that the pilot is able to accurately tie in his altitude with a visible beach or other well defined objects. The altitude of the attack should be from 200 to 300 feet and the bomb-release line from 350 to 200 feet from the target.

2.     Conditions:

       Skip bombing attacks have proved effective under the following conditions:
a.    First light of the dawn with the approach made from west to east. Then just enough light exists to silhouette the vessel.
b.    On clear nights with the moon below 40 degrees elevation, the attack being made into the moon.
c.    Directly out of a very low setting sun.
d.    From very low clouds or poor weather where an element of surprise is completely possible.

3.       Rules:

a.    Start the bombing run from the darkness into the light, keeping the attacking plane against a dark background and silhouetting the target against the light.
b.    Deliver the attack from a fairly steep dive with throttles retarded at a speed of from 200 to 250 mph.
c.    Withdrawal should be made in all cases directly over the target and straightaway at sea level. Any attempt to turn near the vessel presents an excellent target.
d.    Bombs should be spaced in train equal to the width of the [illegible]

4.      Fuzing:

       Either the American 405 second fuze or the Aussie 11 - 12 second fuze can be used. The shorter time fuze has greater effectiveness, since in deep water the 11 - 12 second fuze occasionally sinks below effective range before exploding.

5.       Action of Bombs:

       Bombs dropped from this altitude will skip, hit the target direct, or go underneath the water. If the attacking airplane drops its bombs from a slight dive, the bombs will usually go through the water and explode underneath the target. In some cases bombs have been observed to leap completely over the target. Some of the bombs of the train will probably hit directly on the target. Either of these events is effective and it is not believed important to attempt to obtain any one of the three results to the exclusion of the others. In some instances, a low order explosion has resulted from a bomb hitting the side of a vessel but in general the bomb cases holdup very well.

6.       Advantages:

       Skip bombing is effective when attempted under the above stated conditions and offers the following advantages:
a.    Very little training is required to achieve accurate results.
b.    No losses to date have been sustained by this organization from skip bombing.
c.    A surprisingly high percentage of hits is obtained by this method.

7.       Precautionary Measures:

       Skip bombing with heavy bombardment aircraft must be considered an attack of opportunity. Any attempt to skip bomb a war vessel in the light, unsupported, would probably be particularly hazardous because of lack of speed and manoeuvrability and small amount of forward fire power. Successful daylight attacks have been made on unescorted merchant vessels by heavy bombers, and light bombers heavily armed forward with .50 cal machine guns have been highly successful against war vessels. This success of light bombers was due to surprise, coordination, and heavy forward fire, none of which are likely to exist in a daylight attack on warships by heavy bombardment. Repeated skip bombing attacks in the same area would result in some form of protection designed to defeat it. It is, however, when the opportunity presents itself, an ideal surefire method of hitting the target.     
« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 04:51:08 PM by Bronk »
See Rule #4

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2008, 04:52:02 PM »
Carbomb- Dropping ord while on the ground. Bombs go off, planes/GVs/whatever 'splode, you get kills.

I thought this went back to AW, but it has its own thread on this forum, so it must have been an early AH trick.

Honestly, don't remember if this was possible in AW but I do recall having to arm bombs before release or they wouldn't explode and dropping them below 500ft usually had dire consequences.


ack-ack
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Offline Strip

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2008, 04:54:51 PM »
I stand corrected. :aok


However when I refer to a "Skip Bomb" I am refering to the bombs that were designed for it. IE Barrels or spheres spun backwards.

Offline Krusty

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2008, 05:02:44 PM »
Those aren't skip bombs. They are sinking bombs (basically depth charges). They may have skipped once or twice over the water but that's not what they are generally classified as.

The term skip bombing applies as Bronk posted, mostly used against shipping, using conventional bombs.

Offline Strip

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2008, 05:06:06 PM »
Oka Oka......replace Skip with Bounce. My turn to Wiki! :D


This is what I have been talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouncing_bomb

Strip(er)

Offline Bronk

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2008, 05:15:07 PM »
Oka Oka......replace Skip with Bounce. My turn to Wiki! :D


This is what I have been talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouncing_bomb

Strip(er)

Bouncing bombs, no thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3ohMEZ-d3I&feature=related
Watch to the end.

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Offline Strip

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2008, 05:40:01 PM »
Tragic....dont suppose it was a remote controlled either.

Strip(er)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2008, 06:09:07 PM »
Those aren't skip bombs. They are sinking bombs (basically depth charges). They may have skipped once or twice over the water but that's not what they are generally classified as.



I believe they were called "Bouncing bombs".


ack-ack
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Offline Strip

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Re: Realistic Ordance Options
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2008, 09:34:26 PM »
See 3 posts up Ack-Ack...wiki all about em. :aok

Strip(er)