stratobuffs

[gatt]

Max, keep coming at 10K ...  

[Torgo]

I believe the point is that, except for the B-29 high alt missions (which were abandonded because they were totally ineffective) heavy buff missions were generally 20,000-25,000 feet or so. B-17s weren't going to 30,000+ feet to bomb Germany.

[Soda]

By the time the bombers crossed over A18, many of the escorts got peeled off, and I only counted 3 P-51's.  I was in a G10, and the bombers were right around 30K in alt.  I don't think a single bomber managed to get to the release point though.  There were several rook shadows on the formation though (i remember seeing dzd playing with some P-51 escort).

30K bombing is not wrong in one sense.  I could care less if someone decided to spend all that time climbing to 30K, I can't even wait for 20K.  Then again, I think that accuracy at 30K should drop, not this "hit centre plate from 30K" that we have now.  Sure, alt is safety, but it also should trade off in accuracy.

<S> to all the Rooks, that was quite the opposing force that came up and decimated that bomber formation... there were a whole lot of defenders who came up to protect the HQ.

-Soda
The Assassins

[CavemanJ]

I went up with the assassins to tackle the buff raid inbound our HQ.  30mm w/ the 20mm gondolas on the wings.  I was passing through 29k when I got sight of the dots of the enemy bombers.  Time I was level and setup for a level headon attack I was at 32k (and that G10 was wallowing like a pig in mud   ).  I hit 2 of the 17s on the first pass and saw smoke pour from one.  Wasn't really a chance to setup for a good reattack because the kite was handling for toejame that high, but we followed along in tail attacks.  If there'd a few less of us up there some of the bombers might've gotten through, the gunners were overwhelmed with too many targets to shoot at  

I ended up killing a B17 with the MGs in the cowling and had 3-4 assists when I landed.

Was alot of fun.

And I'll be lookin fer ya in the unfriendly skies Voss  

[TheWobble]

I was on for 10 min a few miniutes ago in my 38 first thing i encounter is a 25k lanc, i climb and climb and climb and climb and shoot him down, then as im returning to earth i see another red dot, but i cant pick out the con then i look up and see a dot. im at abut 22k now so i say $^&% and start climbing again, i reach 30k and im still below the con to the point to be out of icon range. finally at 33k it shows up B-17, great, then all the sudden i see him drop his bombs and vanish?
my only conclusion is that he alt-f4'd.

so i spend the next 3 months with engines on idle returning to the milky way galexy after wasting all my gas and TIME chasing some jackwad who was at probably 36k or so and then just left the game after he dropped his bombs.  

Naaa, i dont see anything dweeby about any of that, do you?  

[Karnak]

I used to feel that way too Wobble, but then I though of how much more damage they could be causing if they were only climbing to 20k-25k feet.  I think they are esentially taking themselves out of the game, except when they are attacking the HQ.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

[Tac]

Those buffs were at 35k+ when they were W of 18.

IMHO, to get a buff to 35k or even 40k is the most idiotic thing anyone can do. The buff pilot will waste almost an entire hour of his time (and those who he brings along with him), you deprive your team of (in the case of this raid) 10 or so people for that said hour... and all for what? The moment the target country detects a large bar and knows its an HQ raid (and see they at ungodly height) they WILL up in 109g10's with BFG cannons en masse.

The defenders spend 8 or 10 minutes climbing, in this case, 16 defenders. Then they HO the buffs, knowing that this is the way to do get the buff formation down quickly to non-dangerous levels (aka not enough K of bombs to down hq).

So you do the math... 10+ people out of strat effort for an hour or so and dont accomplish nothing vs 16 people that are out of the strat effort for 8-10 minutes and DO accomplish something.

Its just dumb. Get 2 lancasters to 25k and bring 2 escorts, they have a MUCH higher chance of success than a massive-b17 raid with escorts at 35k.

I still say that there should be 10k alt raised fields in the home islands. BOMBER BASES, with only 1 BH, 1 VH, ammo, fuel, no barracks and acks. This way buff raids would be more common, as the buff pilots would take less than half the time to reach their bombing alt (25k). The only problem is, dweebs like those in the above mentioned raid would use these bases to go to 45k. Perhaps HTC should make that above 28k you would not see target, no matter how much ZOOM you apply to the norden laserbombsight.

[SKurj]

Y'all remember those lovely shots of cloud layers in AH?

Once 1.06 comes out the hi alt dweebs, be they buff or fighters won't have it so easy anymore +)   It will be the gamers, gaming the game using in flight GPS to fly to the target while completely immersed in a cloud bank that will then invoke whines +)

SKurj

[Thunder]

Tac,

I flew close escort for this bomber raid. It was purposely designed to be a LONG-DIFFICULT mission. Not a low altitude milkrun! The mission was to go up against strong opposition and not hit the HQ by a couple of sneakthrough buffs. I personally commented to my flight on the radio to expect the ASSASSINS to meet us. We respect our enemy and we knew we going into a hard fight. I had a lot of fun and everone did as well.

You are telling us how dumb it is to fly a certain way. The only thing I think is DUMB is a guy posting how everyone should fly.

In  addition make a statements like:

 

The only problem is, dweebs like those in the above mentioned raid would use these bases to go to 45k.

indicates to me that you have a very BIG ego and very little respect for a lot of fine pilots!

Thunder

[Tac]

at 35k? nope, no respect at all.

[Thunder]

Whels1 Wrote:
 

BS Thunder, i was 1 of the 1st Rooks to find the buff/p51 stream, i was a p38 at 35 freekin K and all the p51s and b17s were 2
to 4k above me.
Whels

Whels1,
I was the flight leader of the close escort buffs. The buffs were at 30K and we spotted you HIGH and to our 12 oclock position. Our 51s climbed from 32K to approximately 34K to meet you and you dove to the Buffs from a possition approximately 2K higher then ours. I estimated your altitude at approximately 36K to start. We followed you down and trough and I personally chased your sorry arse far away from the buffs. You never got close to them and in your P38 just did an ineffective stringline away from the buffs. Your account of the buffs and 51s above you by 5k when you were at 35K is a TOTAL FABRICATION. The picture I am shown here show the altitude of buffs as I am coming in behind a 109. This is after I chased you away and came back to the formation. PLEASE IN THE FUTURE... GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT!

Tac wrote:
 

at 35k? nope, no respect at all.

35K.... hmmm looks like 30K but who gives a RATS RIPP about who you respect at all anyway!

   

Thunder




[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 02-28-2001).]

[gatt]

Hahahahah, what a bunch of alt-monkey-dweebs ...  

[Saintaw]

Wasn't there and am sorry I missed it, Large Buff formation escorted by P51/ P47's is rare nowadays... I don't care what altitude they are at, it usualy is a blast when either flying it or intercepting it...

High speed passes when you can barely maintain your kite flying straight is good fun IMO    

Biggest one I remember dates back from about a year ago, Bee & I switched to Bishes for a day, as CavemanJ and Redwing were organising Big B17/P51 raids if I remember well, we had a flight if 18 B17's escorted with something like 15->20 P51's ... Good memories... 30K or not.

Of course, now, I find myself intercepting buffs much more than escorting them, hehehe... fun too!


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[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 03-01-2001).]

[Tac]

I intercepted your alt monkey group W of 18, I was at 33k, buffs were higher.

Personally, I give a damn if you buff at 50k as long as it isnt to hit HQ, which is something that affects ALL the people playing. But I guess fair play is not to be expected as long as "gaming the game" is possible eh? Sad, sad.

[whels1]

 wrong again. i was a p38 at 35k in sector
10 6, i was 1 of the 1st rooks to find the stream west of 21. i was 35 and all p51s and b17s were above me by 2 to 4k at merge with
me still at 35k, i even killed a f4u at 34k trailin behing the stream protectin a laggin buff.

whels

 

Originally posted by Thunder:

Whels1 Wrote:
  35K.... hmmm looks like 30K but who gives a RATS RIPP about who you respect at all anyway!

     

Thunder


[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 02-28-2001).]