When is a HO not a HO?

[Charge]

Even the Santa HOs, and many times -why won't you?

-C+

[SFCHONDO]

Question shouldn't be When is a HO not a HO?....Question should be When are people going to stop whining about dieing in a game. I could care less how you die or how I die. It's a freaking game. Object is to kill your oponent anyway possible without cheating. I understand the frustration, but can't understand why some get so worked up. Ohh well, I know I am not going to sweat it.

[Yeager]

who da ho?

I da ho?

[SkyRock]

No-one ever gets HO'ed, they HO themselves... both pilots have to HO to make it a HO.

HO, Head On, is exactly that, a head on pass.  We dogfighters, do not think shooting on the HO is very fun.  Matter of factly, many of us think of it as very lame, boring, and cheapish!  It takes very little skill, it takes very little understanding of acm's, and it is something that should be graduated from.  It is a newb tactic showing little knowlege of merges and acm's!

[SkyRock]

Question shouldn't be When is a HO not a HO?....Question should be When are people going to stop whining about dieing in a game. I could care less how you die or how I die. It's a freaking game. Object is to kill your oponent anyway possible without cheating. I understand the frustration, but can't understand why some get so worked up. Ohh well, I know I am not going to sweat it.

Who's worked up?  Can people not discuss a topic without punks like you coming in here and calling them whiners?  I haven't seen a whine in this thread yet.  Did you stop to think that maybe some play this game to fight, and not to just randomly fly around shooting people in the face like it was some nintendo game?  Why must you come in this thread and "attempt" to act like you hold a more mature perception of this game than others?  

Sit down!

[DoNKeY]

akak everything is a ho for you!

donkey

[cbizkit]

So, I nosed down a bit so we wouldn't collide, and he shot the smack out of me from about 20 feet above me into my canopy and right wing.  Immediately, he said he had a nice canopy shot.  Now, so if someone is constantly pushing(the get around before he does and shoot front quarter first) type of fight, then they have parts of their acm that need work.

Scary is the day when people start agreeing with SkyRock but I have to concur with his line of thought here. Theres a ton of cases where I run into pilots that are willing to sell-out everything in order to get a guns solution, whether it's a HO, hung out stall shot, or a shot that forces a collision. And theres a lot of cases where experienced pilots can recognize things like a collision path ahead of time and maneuver to avoid it which is then taken advantage of as Skyrock alluded to.

A lack of chivalry I think we've all grown to expect, but it's the ever increasing desire to get that kill no matter what that tends to annoy me quite often. Losing to a superior pilot in a good fight is frustrating but it's acceptable because you know you can improve/learn from your mistakes and identify what you did wrong and what to do next time. However the situation that SkyRock describes the mistake was simply being there in the first place trying to have a fight.

Some people will say well you shouldn't have been in his gunsites! But IMO it's no different then the saying that someone who's willing to trade their life as an assassin is the most difficult to stop. If a pilot is willing to risk position/Energy/collisions for a low percentage shot with a high percentage of death it's very close to that same type of suicidal behavior. Personally, I don't like a 1:1 KD ratio, but I'm sure if everyone used the same tactics we'd all be much closer to it.

(Note: These thoughts apply mainly to 1v1 fights with roughly similar aircraft. If you're in a 190A8 fighting a F4U-1A Co-E, I would honestly expect a pilot to take those longer risks because you won't get multiple chances in that matchup.)

[SkyRock]

Scary is the day when people start agreeing with SkyRock but I have to concur with his line of thought here. Theres a ton of cases where I run into pilots that are willing to sell-out everything in order to get a guns solution, whether it's a HO, hung out stall shot, or a shot that forces a collision. And theres a lot of cases where experienced pilots can recognize things like a collision path ahead of time and maneuver to avoid it which is then taken advantage of as Skyrock alluded to.

A lack of chivalry I think we've all grown to expect, but it's the ever increasing desire to get that kill no matter what that tends to annoy me quite often. Losing to a superior pilot in a good fight is frustrating but it's acceptable because you know you can improve/learn from your mistakes and identify what you did wrong and what to do next time. However the situation that SkyRock describes the mistake was simply being there in the first place trying to have a fight.

Some people will say well you shouldn't have been in his gunsites! But IMO it's no different then the saying that someone who's willing to trade their life as an assassin is the most difficult to stop. If a pilot is willing to risk position/Energy/collisions for a low percentage shot with a high percentage of death it's very close to that same type of suicidal behavior. Personally, I don't like a 1:1 KD ratio, but I'm sure if everyone used the same tactics we'd all be much closer to it.

(Note: These thoughts apply mainly to 1v1 fights with roughly similar aircraft. If you're in a 190A8 fighting a F4U-1A Co-E, I would honestly expect a pilot to take those longer risks because you won't get multiple chances in that matchup.)

I agree with your "note" and thank you for saying what Iwas trying to say a little better than I said it!

[BlauK]

So, why would "you dogfighters" go on a HO cource at all if you never pull your trigger in such situation?
HO cources are easy to avoid, taking a HO cource is 99,9% times intentional.

If/when I decide to take the HO cource, I surely also let some shots fly at the enemy before I dodge him.

I suppose "you dogfighters" can hardly ever engage bombers, because their guns are often facing your way 

[moot]

Blauk the HO acm is one of the best entries to a bunch of other good acm.  Most common example would be duel merges where both guys try and work into the best position, post-immelmans.

[BlauK]

It is ok for a DA cold merge, but IMNSHO a cold HO is a verrrry bad move and pure stupidity at any other arena.

I dont think HO has anything to do with ACM

[Yeager]

We dogfighters, do not think shooting on the HO is very fun.  Matter of factly, many of us think of it as very lame, boring, and cheapish!

Anyone in the game that is worth the salt on their balls knows how to avoid the Head On shot and turn it against the oppoenent.  Then there are those peeps who think they are some sort of dogfighterZ with skillZ
who do nothing but sit in the tower after getting their aZZeZ  handed to them and complain about it 

[cbizkit]

So, why would "you dogfighters" go on a HO cource at all if you never pull your trigger in such situation?
HO cources are easy to avoid, taking a HO cource is 99,9% times intentional.

If/when I decide to take the HO cource, I surely also let some shots fly at the enemy before I dodge him.

I suppose "you dogfighters" can hardly ever engage bombers, because their guns are often facing your way 

The shortest distance between two points... merging...  after a rope... and all the times when your maneuver crosses your nose over the enemy plane. Just because your pipper is pointed towards the target doesn't mean you have a high percentage of hitting and it certainly doesn't mean you have a high percentage of avoiding being hit if you're not behind the 3/9 line.

The point being made is there are plenty of pilots out there that only care about having a target in their sights (point & shoot) without regard to the situation it leaves them in, such as running into another plane, stalling out or out of position for dealing with the next maneuver. It's usually plainly obvious to experienced pilots when a target is intent of merely pointing their nose and shooting. Your orientation at that point is largely irrelevant to the prevailing attitude of your enemy. Their mind is set on shooting at whatever you provide them not having a dogfight. This can be reinforced as in SkyRock's scenario after the merge where the enemy will maneuver again for ill-advised or dangerous shots leading to collisions/stalls etc.

Simply maneuvering for better shots does several things:

1) Leads to a better fight
2) Gives a higher percentage of getting hits
3) Saves ammo
4) Increases survivability
5) ACM education

I don't doubt that people get kills in the above manner, but rarely have I seen anyone actually use it to great effect beyond a 50/50 chance of win/lose.

(Mossie is exempt from this too, if I'm in the mossie I will shoot you from 1K+ at any orientation, those guns are evil )

[trax1]

A HO is a HO ofcourse ofcourse, unless that HO is Mr. BPARKER ofcourse.

[moot]

It is ok for a DA cold merge, but IMNSHO a cold HO is a verrrry bad move and pure stupidity at any other arena.

I dont think HO has anything to do with ACM

You're wrong..