Author Topic: Calif. woman slain while calling 911  (Read 2232 times)

Offline Xargos

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2008, 10:54:09 AM »
I really wouldn't consider a shotgun with an 18 and a half inch barrel with a pistol grip a long gun.

If you peek down a hallway and see multi-invaders coming, put your thumb on the trigger, hold it out with both hands and the barrel pointing down the hallway then shoot.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 11:00:35 AM by Xargos »
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2008, 11:10:17 AM »
So you have both of your hands around the corner and shooting blind in your own house, that's really smart.  :rolleyes:. BTW don't you know you really do have to aim the shotgun. It doesn't magiacally fill the hallway with the pattern.

An 18" barrel in front of you is far easier to grapple with than a 4" barrel kept close to you.  :huh
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Offline Xargos

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2008, 11:20:10 AM »
The same people that certify your training, certify mine.

P.S.  I can be sued if I miss an escaping inmate.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 11:31:00 AM by Xargos »
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Maverick

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2008, 01:51:26 PM »
If you were posting to me:

INmates aren't the issue in a home invasion, at least not yet anyhow. Of course if you live right next to a prison it might be more probable, but I believe the situation was a home invasion not a prison break. Shooting blind around a corner isn't very accurate and at home range the pattern will not spread very far at all. The folks who certified us didn't teach shooting blind.
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Offline Elfie

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2008, 02:20:30 PM »
The single biggest advantage to a shotgun during a home invasion is the fact that it is much easier to hit with due to the pattern of the pellets. It simply doesn't require the same level of expertise that a hand gun does.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2008, 02:32:05 PM »
Elfie,

How big do you think that shotgun pattern is going to be at a range of say 15 feet?
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Offline Xargos

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2008, 02:43:49 PM »
Maverick, I think we're not on the same page.  Let me start over.

You are awoken in the middle of the night by the sound of your door being broken down.  You grab your shotgun and look down the hall. The invaders see you and start pointing their guns your way and start coming towards you. You back up into your room, put your thumb on the trigger poke the shotgun out a little and fire towards the middle of the group coming down the hallway.  Chances are you're going to wound some of them, and maybe even make them flee. If anything you'll blind them for a second to give you another chance to peek and see their location again and fire your next round properly.  I'm not talking about randomly firing blindly in your own home.
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Offline Gunthr

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2008, 05:00:13 PM »
I guess there are several takes on this, and it might depend on where you live.  I like a 12 ga shotgun first of all, for home defense.     
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Offline Yossarian

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2008, 05:13:24 PM »
I live in England, where handguns are illegal, and all other firearms are strictly controlled.

Thankfully, shootings are rather uncommon in this country, to say the least.

I'm not trying to sound at all insulting or rude here, and I'm sorry if I do, but I think there's a rather strong link between the above two facts.  Please make your own opinion of the above.  I've already made mine.

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Offline Maverick

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2008, 05:49:48 PM »
Xargos,

At least we are now talking the same scenario, a home and not a prison. I do not have a lot of confidence in blindly firing down a hallway. I am aware of the real spread of a shotgun and know you can't depend on the spread of shot to cover any significant portion of it.
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Offline Xargos

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2008, 06:01:10 PM »
You are correct, the spread is not as great as most people think, but your chances of hitting something is greater then that of a small handgun.  Most civilians are unaware of how much their shooting skill decreases when they are scared.
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2008, 06:04:15 PM »
In the case of the woman in the original post; A 2-million dollar mansion in SoCal is going to have more than a few security measures. Something failed there, if it came down to her calling the police herself, just as the intruder made it to where she was in the house.

Secondly, Having a gun is different than having one and the willingness to use it. Every post made after the original was based on being ready to blast away themselves. Well, it appears' that this woman did not have a firearm, not because she couldnt' afford one (2,000,000$ house proves that) but most likely, either an aversion, or willingness, to use one.

And this is where this story can be easily spun against firearms. It won't be viewed by a liberal SC justice that this person was denied the right to defend herself; Rather, that a firearm was easy enough to aquire, that someone who wishes to live peaceably, even outside of a large, urban environment, is denied that, because a firearm was available to a criminal. How he got it won't be an issue, just the fact it was available. This is the kind of argument that was used to justify the lawsuits against manufacturers' such as Colt a few years' ago. The person's ability to defend themselves' never really comes into the formula, just the fact that criminals' have access to guns.

The sad point to this is, If it brought up in the supreme court, It will be used against the 2nd, not in support of it.

It's easy for us to tend to look at things' in the manner of how we would handle it. But you have to realize that a story like this will be spun against the 2nd.

BTW, it's just as legal for someone to own a firearm in West Covina as it is in Texas.  Where she lives, it is lawful to keep a Semi-automatic pistol or Revolver at home. In that essence, they were available, and didn't stop this from happening.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 06:09:15 PM by FrodeMk3 »

Offline Xargos

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2008, 06:07:03 PM »
Good post FrodeMk3.   :aok
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Offline Toad

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2008, 06:21:08 PM »
Please make your own opinion of the above.  I've already made mine.

Yossarian

Good for you! So have I. In fact, if you do a bit of a BBS search you will find literally thousands of posts discussing this issue. Suffice it to say that in the end most people held the opinions they had when the threads started.

Absolute best comment had to be by Stringer: "Ban the butterknife!
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Offline Elfie

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Re: Calif. woman slain while calling 911
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2008, 06:40:38 PM »
Elfie,

How big do you think that shotgun pattern is going to be at a range of say 15 feet?

Depending on the choke (or lack thereof if the barrel has been sawed off), you might be as big as 4 or 5 inches. Which is a heck of a lot bigger than a bullet. Even with the tightest choke, the pattern immediately starts to spread upon leaving the barrel.
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In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.