Hurricane IIC...FM Odd?

[Bucky73]

The AH representation of hurricane II is just wrong.

And this is based on your extensive experience actually flying the Hurri 2c in real life?

The only people who could even say that are the ones that have had a chance to actually FLY these things. As far as this post goes...this is just a GAME and it really doesn't matter if it is or isn't anyway.

[CAP1]

so now you want to pick on my lowly Hurricane! If a Hurricane caught your K4 then that is just poor SA on your part. Same goes for the hog flyer. You guys want to just fly around in stuff that can't be outran, outdove,outturned or outclimbed. Lets just remodel everything around what you like to fly.
Someone in a hurri pawns your 109K4 dragster, so the hurri must be over-modeled Give me a break! the K4 outclimbs the hurricane...use some ACM, extend, climb and come back to the fight.

he c an't do that.......then there'll be a thread started calling him an running, altmonkey HOtard

[CAP1]

The AH representation of hurricane II is just wrong.

who cares????????????
HTC's doing the best job they can with the information and equipment they have. rather than focusing on what they do as compared to real life, focus on what they do INGAME....and then fly and fight to your advantages......and for christ sake, HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!

[Squire]

More nonsense.

AH is not WW2.

...you would never, EVER, take a fast, heavy fighter like a 109K-4, P-51D, ect ect, and drop down in the weeds and turn fight at @180 mph at 500 feet vs a Hurricane II in real life during the war (any war), unless you were #1 Drunk, #2, Stupid, or #3, Both.

In AH the 1945 superfighters fly in an "arena", where a lot of low wing loading planes TB at low level. Its a GAME.

If you really want to see the drawbacks of a Hurricane IIC vs say, Fw190s...fly in a FSO or a Scenario, and watch the Fws use speed and hit and run to keep Hurricanes defensive.

I recall several FSOs where I was LW, in a 109G-2, and the Russians had some Hurricane IIs, and P-40s. Pfft, we just BZ'd them the entire time. In other words, we used actual WW2 tactics, and did just fine.

...If you want to drop flaps in your 1945 wonderbird and get into a low, slow, TB contest vs a Hurricane with a low wing loading, well, go ahead, but dont blame HTC when you get waxxed!

DUH. 

[Furball]

This thread is funny.

A plane which was armed with quad 20mm, is armoured (and the bits that are not armoured are made of fabric, which often meant that cannon rounds passed straight through) and could out turn a Spitfire is always going to do well in the weeds in AH.

[AKDogg]

Aparently squire and furball, U didn't read the initial post.  We not turning with a hurri @ 180mph, we trying to dive away and maybe turn @ 400+.  Whats happening is a hurri IIC is able to dive with a hog, k4, p47 etcc.. and maintain all that E almost as long as a the Heavy american plans and such.  Even if u turn real hard in a hog @ 425+, the hurri can do same and stay with ya if not catch ya without breaking nothing.  We talking about a 6-7000lb plane holding its E like it wa a 10-12,000lb plane.  It also zoom climbs like the heavy weights.  Keep in mind, this is only the Hurri IIC.  The IID can't even compare to it at all.

[Ack-Ack]

It also zoom climbs like the heavy weights. 

I've never had a IIC match a zoom climb with the P-38, unless the IIC had an overwheling energy advantage to begin with.  Coalt, Co-E, a simple Vertical 8 at the merge is usually all that is needed to rope one.


ack-ack

[Squire]

I read the initial post, im responding to the generalities re: FMs like the Hurricane II vs other rides.

...as far as the specific allegation, you need film to see relative E states.

My guess is it was yet another case of misjudged E.

[Spikes]

I often wondered about the hurri IIC myself.  I have been chased by these planes in my hog in a dive and the catch me.  If I remember correctly, a hurri should never be able to catch a hog in a dive coalt.  Let alone stay with a hog in a 450+ mph turn like they have and not break a single part.

If you were in a Chog or -4 he shouldn't be able to catch you period...

[AKDogg]

I was -1, but doesn't matter.  He shouldn't have been able to catch any hog but he did.  That is the point.  This has happen numerous times, more so when diving down and then level, a hurri IIC stays with as much E as me and keeping it for almost as long.

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

You need to say "i dove UP and away, and it stayed with me"

Key words, UP & AWAY.
In a dive, of course a armored "heavy" plane will stay with you to some point.

[Saxman]

Point being the Hurricane isn't a heavy plane.

I've seen this questionable level of E-retention with Spits to a lesser degree, as well.

[Anaxogoras]

All of this sounds like a case of misjudging the energy state of your opponent.  We've all had it happen to us, but you've just got to suck it up and blame yourself when it does.  I don't fly the Hurri much, but from my experiences it doesn't dive so badly, and has good control at high speeds.  That's how they can build up all that E and ruin your day when they appear to be in level flight.

[Slamfire]

If you were in a Chog or -4 he shouldn't be able to catch you period...

Any lowly fighter can catch the finest ENY 5 plane if it has an E advantage from the "get go".  Co-alt does not equal co-speed, or co-E; and yes, many (if not most) veterans do not understand this concept in the heat of battle... All they think is ENY ("Oh, he has the crappier plane, so this one is MINE!....   WTF ??!!  I got killed!  Something is PORKED !!!!!!!!").

If you film all engagements and study the merging speeds, and altitude (and you understand the relationship) all such illusions of "porked flight models" will dissipate.

Yes, a heavier plane retains E better - but a lighter one accelerates faster.  Short term: lighter plane has the advantage - long term, heavier one does (simplification, but a good rule of thumb when the watermelon hits the fan).  How long ?  2-3 minutes.  In the heat of battle, that is an eternity.

BTW: on the Corsair - yes it retains energy extremely well, but, contrary to what you might think, it rebuilds lost energy VERY slowly.  A knowledgeable pilot in even the crappiest of all rides will exploit this.  CO-Energy with most planes, the Corsair is a very weak ride - certainly no match (all things "E" being equal) with something like a Spitfire, A6M2 or Hurricane (among others).  Yes a superior pilot might make a difference, but then... we start to change the subject (of comparison) from planes to pilots.

Do not cry and whine when you lose - study and get better.

Slamfire

[Slamfire]

Simplification: for those of you that do not understand the above.... try sucking less