Reverses

[Yossarian]

I'm not sure that this is the right word for it, but sometimes when I'm fighting someone, they seem to have turned around in an impossibly short time, and be right on (or near) my 6 (I've also noticed this with the offline AI).  Is there any trick to doing this, and either way, how do I do this best?

<S>

Yossarian

[trotter]

The more you fly, the more that 'E' becomes a tangible factor in your decision making. You eventually get to a point where calculations of relative E between you and enemy are constantly ongoing. There is a critical point, you can probably break it down into the split second realm, during a fight when you are assured of two things:

a) You can, through E bleeding manuevering of your own or due to natural state of the engagement, or due to angles, force your enemy out in front of you
b) You can, after the above happens, quickly vector back to your previous (and your enemy's) flight path

Parts A and B must happen together, as A alone will simply force a restart of the fight, with you now the worse off having lost more E, and Part B alone...well that is where the majority of new players end up, with a bogey on their six that they are unable to shake regardless of changing vector.

Now there is an ever important Part C, which is

c) After vectoring back onto the enemy's flight path, you know that you will have the E to stay close enough to force his evasive manuevering or E loss of his own


The good pilots can force parts A and B, the great pilots know that parts A, B, and C will be successful before they even initiate part A.

It's all about practice, experience, and that sort of thing.

Sorry I can't explain the manuevers in more detail (they are very very situation specific, so generalities won't help much), but I'm sure a trainer or someone with more experience than me can explain it better.

[Yossarian]

Thank you very much 

That's a huge help 

<S>

Yossarian

[The Fugitive]

Another thing to remember is you can't "just follow the other guy" till you get a shot. YOU may be trying to FOLLOW, where the other guy breaks out of plane, (not following) and this is where it LOOKS LIKE he just spun around.

The trick in fighting is to go to where the enemy plane IS GOING TO BE, not to follow him there.

[BaldEagl]

While your description is incredibly vague here's a few generalities for you to consider:

If your speed exceeds that of your opponent, he will generally turn better (of course that depends on the planes also).  That's why vertical manouvers (i.e. the Immelmann, high yo-yo, wing-over, etc.) are so popular as reversal techniques.  They allow you to slow into a tighter turn, then use the descent to re-gain E.

You're opponent may be well versed in the use of rudder (which is particularily effective in a wing-over reversal).

If speeds are in the mid to slow range, depending on planes, he may be using flaps to improve instantaneous turn-rate.

Your opponent may just be in a superior turning aircraft.

[mechanic]

hi yossarian, here is a short film for you to study, if you like.

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/brace_of_190s.ahf

notice the 190A8 and how he gets reversed. might leave him scratching his head there, makes alot more sense when you watch it from my view.

hope this can help. i you like i can post alot more films of reversals, i probably have about a milllion perfect examples on my hard drive i will look through and post if you would like sir.

S!

[Yossarian]

Cool, thanks for all the help 

BaldEagl, what do you mean by a 'wing-over'?  I don't think I've heard that term before.

<S>

Yossarian

[trotter]

Here ya go Yoss, I think I have a film that may help clarify.

http://www.mediafire.com/?7ekmf1u00x9

Fight I had a few weeks ago in a P47D-25 against a Yak-9u

At the very onset I get pinged up a bit by a little high deflection nose on shot. Whoops! But the part I want you to watch is at 2:00 through about 2:45.

At 2:00, the Yak is extending vertically, getting ready to set up a steep drop in. He has both alt and E on me.

As he drops in, I begin to think about angles. Yes, avoiding his pass is important, but I'm also thinking about how I can go on the offensive immediately afterwards.

His pass misses, and with him below me I look at his flight path trajectory, estimated E, and make the decision right around the 2:30 mark that really helped me out. I cut throttle, enough so that he would pop out in front of me upon resuming his extending vector. But the important part is that I did not cut throttle too long, I just cut it long enough to slide in behind him while allowing myself to maintain the most possible E. Why? Because that E I saved by not cutting throttle too long allowed me to keep pace and take the shot at 2:38 that knocked some pieces off his plane.

Watch it from his perspective as well. Think he was expecting to end up in that situation before he made the vertical pass? That's the goal of a true reversal, making the other guy kick himself afterwards.

Anyway, you can watch the rest of the fight if you wish, it's kind of lengthy because he plays it safe, using the advantages of the Yak. I also have some throttle work around the 4:10-4:30 mark that again is about using angles to turn the tables.

Hope this film makes some of it a little less confusing

[BaldEagl]

Cool, thanks for all the help 

BaldEagl, what do you mean by a 'wing-over'?  I don't think I've heard that term before.

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Yossarian

I'll probably do a poor job of explaining it (as I always seem to do) but it's similar to a high yo-yo except that you drop your inside wing and crank in hard rudder in the direction of your turn at the top.  In planes like the F6F, F4F and FM2 which are particularily adept at this manouver, you can almost rotate the plane around your lower wingtip.  I'm sure theres better write-up's on it here or at the trainers site.