Corsair Training

[TequilaChaser]

1st my apologys to Arlo, Thing and Vf-17's squad.....I had planned on getting Arlo's group together this past Weds Night, but unfortunately Weds turned into one of the hottest days yet this year here in Florida, and my business was swamped with telephone calls for no cooling or broken equipment issues...it has not let up yet this week ( I am service/Install manager at my HVAC company )..I am going to have to figure out a weekend time to follow thru with my commitment in helping Arlo's squad and helping Thing and the rest of you...

it really sucks when I make a commitment to help you guys and my real-life rises up and smacks me down like this...I had called Murdr to relay the news Weds evening, but Murdr himself , when he called me back was still at work trying to get home.from that point on I said the heck with it and found a 5 o'clock some where place of business....

will be PMing those who I hav already contacted to work out a weekend schedule with you.......again my sincere apologys for the let down for Weds Night..
 

[SgtPappy]

I'm sure they understand, TQ. Everyone's got commitments.

Thing, I usually have convergence at 325 - 375 max. The 50's are great but they're only really buzz-saws at short-medium range. 400 I think is a little too far. Flap use is crucial but don't be dropping them all the time at at 50 degrees. You'll lose too much speed and E that way.

Most of the time, I want to be traveling above 200 - 350 mph in MA or duel conditions. When you do drop them flaps, make sure it's usually not more than 40 or even 30 degrees. You're not going to be accelerating very quickly if you lose speed.

[Thing]

Thanks for the tips Pappy.  I find the more I fly the Corsair the easier its gets.  Just need to keep practicing. 


Tequila I understand no need to apologise. Just pm me when you have free time and we can set something up.


   Pappy and Tequila

[Saxman]

Know the situation. In large fights I prefer staying fast, even above max deployment speed for flaps. Stay above the fight and work your way from the top down. The Corsair IMO is flown best as BnZ, or at least a high-speed angles fighter, in medium to large furballs. Use your superior E-retention and high-speed maneuverability--especially in the roll axis--to gain extension and angles, respectively. If you're using more than two notches of flaps you've shed too much airspeed for a large fight and should consider egress to regain altitude and airspeed.

In 1v1 or small fights (no more than 3-4 aircraft on each side) the Corsair tolerates getting slow much more readily but I'd recommend using caution, as while the Corsair's turn RADIUS with flaps deployed will get you inside many opponents, most opponents still have the superior turn RATE and if you don't get them quickly they'll be around on you before you can get a shot.

[SgtPappy]

Not to mention the F4U's average acceleration and climb rate just make this all the more worse. This is what makes the good-accelerating P-38 underestimated and very potent, that it doesn't seem to lose speed (or gain a torque effect) at very low speeds, so more often than not, P-38's are out-turning planes at very VERY low speeds.

If you have the extra speed even planes that would normally out-climb you probably wouldn't catch you in a low angle zoom climb.

[Thing]

I forgot to ask about convergence with the C Hog

I'm usually at 300 with the 20mm


 

[Messiah]

Find manetmp(blukitty, or whatever name he goes by now a day) he/she/it?(no offense, just confusion) is one of the best Corsair/Hellkitty pilots I've fought.  TC is one of the best as well.

[whiteman]

I like to drag kills away from the furball like I'm running then turn the fight around on them. Then climb back up and find another.

[Void56]

ok i have been having a problem with the corsair. when someone is higher than me and starts diving normally i dive too and then pull a high g manuever to get out of their range and climb back up. when im back up i notice my adversary climbed back up too but higher than i did. is there any way i can get on him or am i just gonna go around in circles? I have mad my oponent bleed his energy and got on him but is it the same in the senario i have just described?

Also some times i dive and when i am 400m behind a target and they are aware of me they turn. thats ok but when i look back i see an enemy aircraft trying to climb wth me but i have more e. however for some reason he is still able to hit me. i can never dive and climb without having a spit, yak, typh, or la-7 climbing with me and its not as if they dove with me, because they were on the deck the whole time.

[whiteman]

Not the expert but for the most part when you have a guy higher that wants to stay there not much more you can do than manuever away and try and slowly climb when you can. I always seem to get one that gets tired of watching my dive away and will chase thats when i try and make him overshoot and get a quick shot.

as for someone that climbs up behind you sounds like those guys had more E than you thought. try and pay attention to how fast you close on him. If you go from D1 to D200 in a couple seconds he doesn't have much e and you can climb with out having to worry most the time. if it takes you awhile to catch up from 400 out their moving fast also. At that close of a range I'll turn fight with them.

[SgtPappy]

Thing,
my convergence is 350 absolute maximum on the C-hog, though more often than not I do keep it at 300 simply because my aim sucks and I prefer to get close.

Void,
if you end up diving then you are just helping the enemy if he/she dives on you. Since the e/a is diving, it is gaining speed. If you dive you gain speed as well but the e/a has more speed and can thus, usually, zoom to a higher altitude than you even if you zoom. Essentially, the e/a had more energy to begin with so will end up with more energy if you both do the same maneuver. The best thing to do is pull a low-G, low E-cost maneuver when the e/a comes barreling down on top of you. The maneuver could be a high or low yo-yo or anything that present the e/a with a crappy shot solution. I.e., an HO pass or exposing your side while pushing negative G are just a few examples on how to avoid getting shot at. Imagine trying to fire at a plane flying past your windscreen pushing G's while you're flying at + 360 mph. Kinda hard to hit, ain't it?

As the enemy climbs back up, gain some altitude by zooming (of you have 300 or more mph) or steady climbing; maybe just over 2000 fpm. Then when the enemy comes back to bounce you, try to gain more speed in a level acceleration and conserve it for the next attack; preferably +250 mph. A good enemy will never lose the altitude advantage but a good defender will never get hit.

If they were able to catch up to you in the first place, chances are they either dove to get behind you (Spits do that since they're not particularly fast w/ the exception of the SpitXIV) or they found you while they were fast. After all, Tiffies and Lala's are fast machines. It's hard to outzoom a Typhoon but you CAN out turn one at just over 250 mph and dropping your flaps 10 degrees at 250 mph will almost ensure this. The best thing to do is be more aware of your surroundings so the e/a never gets behind you in the first place. So watch out when you dive and practise scanning EVERY area over and over again.

[mtnman]

Also some times i dive and when i am 400m behind a target and they are aware of me they turn. thats ok but when i look back i see an enemy aircraft trying to climb wth me but i have more e. however for some reason he is still able to hit me. i can never dive and climb without having a spit, yak, typh, or la-7 climbing with me and its not as if they dove with me, because they were on the deck the whole time.

Also realize that if you "zoom up" wrong, you can make it easier for a lower E plane to catch you.  One example would be pulling up too sharply, bleeding excessive E in the process.  This would lower your ability to zoom, and make it APPEAR that he has "super" zoom capabilities.

Another one that I see a lot is for the zoomong plane to zoom in a manner that allows his slower pursuer to "cut the corner" and catch him on the zoom.  The slower plane likely doesn't have enough E to catch the faster plane, but is allowed to fly a shorter path to make up for it.  In this example, the faster plane may be zooming straight up, while the pursuer is climbing at a shallower angle (maybe only 45-70 degrees, instead of 90...)

MtnMan

[goober69]

so for a zoom climb is hitting auto speed a bad idea or could u just pull it up about 30-50 deg and hit auto angle?

and if you are trying for a rope do you pull straight up and hammer over or spiral up?

[Saxman]

Spiral climbing in the Hog can be a beautiful thing just because of her E-retention. With enough starting E, even the -1 Birdcage can hold 3k/min in the spiral practically indefinitely.

[mtnman]

The angle you use to go up in your zoom depends on too many variables for auto-speed to be a good choice, at least IMO.  If you are VERY fast, and your low targets can't possibly touch you, I suppose it would be fine then.  In that case you're just turning energy into altitude without any immediate "plans".

In a situation where I'm zooming to maintain and improve my position over a specific opponent, I think any of the "auto" options would be a significant handicap.  I'm way too busy looking out of the back of the plane, rolling to fine tune my view or to align myself to reverse back down onto him.  I'm also adjusting my climb angle to place me in the best position to reverse.  A lot of that depends on our relative speeds, and what he's doing to make things easier or more difficult for me.  Do I need a bit more height, or a few more seconds?  If so I'll stretch it upward a bit more.  Do I need to reverse quickly in order to keep pressure on him, or take my shot before he can recover from his stall?  If so I'll reverse without ever reaching the zoom height I was capable of.

The zoom angle and height need to be adjusted for every situation you find yourself in.  I generally PREFER to go as vertical as possible, to get every bit of height I can get, but that isn't always possible or preferable.  Too steep might get you killed in a particular fight, or too shallow may have the same result.  It's really going to depend on your immediate needs, based on your opponents position, E-state, and "ability".

Reversing at the top varies for the same reasons.  Generally, I don't hammerhead at all.  My normal reverse will go into effect about 125mph, by simply applying more up elevator and two notches of flaps.  Think of an upside down raindrop, and that's my normal flightpath as seen from the side.  The thickness or thinness of the drop will vary depending on my speed and "plans".  Against planes like the Hurri's, I'll "loiter" a bit while inverted, since they seem to like coming straight up at me in an HO type attempt when they see me top out.  This would make for a pretty fat raindrop.  By loitering I give them a chance to come up and stall as I come down to hit them.  I generally only "loiter" 2-4 seconds.  This lets me shoot them as their nose drops, denying them a gun solution.  Again, it varies with each fight.  My goal in a roping type manuever is to reverse onto them while they are about D800, very slow, and unable to catch me.  I want my reversal timed so that as they stall and flop, I'm on my way down, picking up some speed through D600, finalizing my aim at D400, and shooting them in the cockpit at D200.  I don't wait for them too stall before I reverse, because I want to be shooting them at that point.  If I wait for them to stall, by the time I've reversed they have as well, and now it's a tailchase.  Important note- I pull my flaps back up BEFORE I'm fully nose-down on a reversal.  They're only deployed while they help me get over the top, and are retracted before they start hurting my dive.  I NEVER let them auto-retract.  Flaps are never "neutral" in effect IMO.  They're either helping you or hindering you.  If they're beneficial, leave 'em down, if not, then bring them up.  Don't let them suck your E advantage away by dropping them and ignoring them...

A spiral at the top?  Yup, quite often.  Normally I do that when I need to stay high just a touch longer to put them in the position I described above.  I'll also use it if the guy is a bit too close, and shooting at me.  If he pulls lead for the shot while I spiral he'll usually stall out so I can pounce on him.

This zooming and diving attack is the same attack I use on bombers, just adjusted a bit for my speed vs theirs, etc...   I'lls ee if I can post a few films.

MtnMan