P-51s

[5PointOh]

Thank you Pyro for the honest answer.  Like I said it was just a question I thought about on the way to work.  I think if it had to been done cheaply then not having the ten rockets is okay.  So how about that radiator shutter.

[VansCrew1]

What about the P51's with the 4 20mm's.



 

[5PointOh]

yes there was a 51 (RAF Mustang IA) with the 4 20mm, but very few had the 4 20s (93 to be exact). Plus being powered by the Allison  V-1710 (1150 hp and a max speed of 382 @ 13000) it would hardly be worth having.  The 51D/K
 had more power and a total production run close to 8000.

[Guppy35]

Well, the question is one of capability versus actual use.  Personally, if you can't arm a P-51D with 10 rockets, you shouldn't be able to arm it with 1,000lb bombs either.  Or, if you can arm 1,000 lb bombs, we should be able to carry 10 rockets.  P-51D POH (dated during WWII) shows the capability of 10 rockets.  So, the capability existed during the war, even if they didn't use it.

I'd up Karnak's challenge to show a wartime P-51D in a combat zone carrying 1,000 lb bombs.  To paraphrase the POH--those bombs created limit loads on the pylons and disrupted flight characteristics so severely that they weren't recommended for use.  So, does anyone have photos of the Pony hanging crowd pleasers?  I'd love to be proven wrong if you do so I can quit being such a grumpy pants about this issue.

15th Fighter Group flew some close support for the Marines when they first got to Iwo.  They didn't go very far with them, but they carried 1000 pounders.  A 15th FG P51D getting the bomb sway braces tightened before a mission from Iwo in April 45.

[Guppy35]

You meant "shutter", yes?

As to the rockets, 10 was postwar.

Here si a challenge for you, find a wartime document or phot of a P-51 hanging both six rockets and two 1,000lb bombs.  Or even two 500lbs.

Does Korea count?  I can show you lots of photos of 51Ds carrying 6 rockets and 2 500 pounders

Just to expand on it.  The rockets and those rails didn't appear until late in 45, again as far as I can tell it was the Iwo 51s that had them.  They didn't carry bombs too because to get to Japan they needed the DTs so they took rockets and DTs.  In Korea the range wasn't an issue so they could take both at the same time.

[beddog]

Its not a terribly big deal, but why is the radiator shutter not modeled.   

overheating dweebs............

[DPQ5]

What about the P51's with the 4 20mm's.



 

thats the p51c

[VansCrew1]

thats the p51c

No it you refer to the post by 5pointoh

yes there was a 51 (RAF Mustang IA) with the 4 20mm, but very few had the 4 20s (93 to be exact). Plus being powered by the Allison  V-1710 (1150 hp and a max speed of 382 @ 13000) it would hardly be worth having.  The 51D/K
 had more power and a total production run close to 8000.

[DPQ5]

No it you refer to the post by 5pointoh

well would be nice 2 have p51c

[5PointOh]

The B is almost identical to the C other than point of assembly.  But I have seen some resorces state that the C was slightly faster.

P-51B (NA-102/104) production version of XP-51B,

6,840lbs empty, 9,200lbs normal, 11,200lbs max
1,620 hp Packard twelve-cylinder Vee liquid-cooled Merlin V-1650-3 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid-cooled Merlin

388 mph @ 5000 ft, 406 mph @ 10,000 ft, 427 mph @ 20,000 ft, 430 mph @ 25,000 ft, 440 mph @ 30,000 ft
1.8 minutes to 5000 ft, 3.6 minutes to 10,000 ft, 7 minutes to 20,000 ft. Service ceiling 42,000 ft
Four 0.5-inch Browning MG53-2 guns in wings, 350 rounds each gun, and 280 rounds each outer gun
NA-104 wing hardpoints strengthened for 1,000-lbs bombs
Final 550 aircraft added 85-US gal rear fuselage tank (P-51B-7-NAs), also retrofitted to some earlier aircraft

Green camouflage paint removed later in production run to reduce weight/drag
1,988 built, 25 to RAF
Mustang Mk III British equivalent P-51B/C (274 P-51Bs and 626 P-51Cs)
British addition of "Malcolm Hood" or "Bubble" canopy on Mustang III improved visibility, retrofitted to many P-51B/Cs

P-51C (NA-103/111) Similar to P-51 B but built in Dallas TX , (not Inglewood CA)

6985 lbs empty, 9800 lbs normal, 11,800 lbs max
1695 hp Packard twelve-cylinder Vee liquid-cooled Merlin V-1650-7
395 mph @ 5000 ft, 417 mph @ 10,000 ft, 426 mph @ 20,000 ft, 439 mph @ 25,000 ft, 435 mph @ 30,000 ft
1.6 minutes to 5000 ft, 3.1 minutes to 10,000 ft, 6.9 minutes to 20,000 ft. Service ceiling 41,900 ft

So in AH the B=C and the D=K (Although the K had a Aeroproducts propeller, but was changed in the field for reliability/durability)

[Strip]

I would give my first born for a 51 with 4 20mm hispanos. I dont care if its slow or not!

Strip(er)

[Stoney]

15th Fighter Group flew some close support for the Marines when they first got to Iwo.  They didn't go very far with them, but they carried 1000 pounders.  A 15th FG P51D getting the bomb sway braces tightened before a mission from Iwo in April 45.

(Image removed from quote.)

Thanks Dan--I knew you'd have 'em if anyone did.  I'm assuming fuel load would be fairly light for takeoff, one lap around the island, and pickle.  Any pics/stories of ETO/MTO/CBI aircraft using them?  Must be strange operating off such a small island and using your ordnance only a few kilometers from the flight line.

I guess my argument would be that if the bombers are restricted to the payloads they carried with max fuel, the fighters should be as well.  I don't think you'd find a whole lot of instances where Pony pilots packed the crowd pleasers with full bags of gas.  But, they did use them, so I'll hush up in the future

[Guppy35]

This is as heavily a loaded 51 as I've seen in WW2.  Another Iwo bird taking off loaded with Rockets and 38 style 165 gallon DTs.  Not sure what those DTs would weigh full of fuel but I'd think it would be plenty.

[Angus]

Blimey, that bird is well loaded!

[avionix]

Standard avgas weighs approx 6lbs per gallon.  At that weight, you would be looking at about 990lbs per drop tank!!!!     Most pics that I have seen have been with 3 tubes under each wing.  Have done some research and have not found anything with 4 rockets under each wing.  Not to say that it didn't happen however.