Author Topic: German fighters......  (Read 1770 times)

Offline ridley1

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German fighters......
« on: April 26, 2008, 12:54:35 PM »
It's just that I find it weird that Germany only had the two frontline fighters.... the 109 and 190. Or is this just because that's all that we've heard about....?

In comparison to what the other combatants in the war put on the front lines...this seems really weird. Can someone care to enlightne me?



Offline Motherland

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2008, 12:59:06 PM »
There were at least 2-3 variants designed by Messerschmitt, that I know of, to replace the 109, the Me209 and the Me309. Neither were found to be of any great leap in performance from the original 109, so the project didn't go forward. As far as I know, the 190 might never have made it either had it not been using the BMW 801 radial engine; the RLM was very worried about having the production capacity to produce the DB-601/605 for 2 frontline fighters.

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2008, 01:42:59 PM »
Both the 109 and the 190 were very successful fighters.  That helps to explain your question.  When frontline aircraft underperform, it creates a need for new ones.  Moreover, both were constantly upgraded throughout the war to be competitive with allied designs.
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Offline Motherland

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2008, 01:56:39 PM »
Both the 109 and the 190 were very successful fighters.  That helps to explain your question.  When frontline aircraft underperform, it creates a need for new ones.  Moreover, both were constantly upgraded throughout the war to maintain their superiority over allied designs.
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Offline Angus

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2008, 03:57:35 PM »
And....lots of variants as well as high production numbers of the 109 especially.
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Offline Nilsen

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2008, 04:51:11 PM »
If the germans had only been that smart with their tanks. They should have stuck with fewer designs and made lots more of them.. especially the tank destroyers without moving turrets. Far too much resources was spent making the next uber tanks when they would prolly have been better off making alot more STUGs with perhaps some slight modifications to keep up.

Offline Lumpy

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 12:13:49 AM »
Hmm ... let's see.

Bf 109
Fw 190
Bf 110
Me 210/410
Ju 88C/G
Do 217J/N
Me 163
Me 262
He 219
He 162
Ta 152

Just from the top of my head. I'm sure I've missed some...
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Offline Nilsen

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2008, 01:14:24 AM »
Calling some of those fighters is really pushing it  ;)

Anywho, i think i understood that the original poster had in mind.

Offline Lumpy

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2008, 01:20:12 AM »
Well, we can always argue over the definition of a fighter, but if only single engined day-fighters count the British only produced three. Spitfire, Hurricane and Typhoon/Tempest. America stands out by building a large variety of fighters, but then they had production capacity to waste. :)
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Offline Nilsen

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2008, 01:24:20 AM »
Japan had a nice lineup too

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2008, 03:37:19 AM »
Production was based on need.

As the the war developed, the need for the Germans was to stop the Allied bombing offensive, thus planes that were faster and carried larger armament.  This can be seen clearly in the development of the 109's over time, as well as (although to a lesser degree) the 190's through the Ta-152 and finally the 262 and 163 as intercepters.

The allies on the other hand, particularily the US in the European front, were concerned with range, speed and altitude as bomber escorts as can be seen in the development of the P-47's and P-51's.

The British were concerned with homeland defense which was epitimized by the Spitfire.

Similar need based development can bee seen through all the counties that participated in the war (Russia with exeptional low altitude planes to repel Germany's ground offensive for instance).

If the needs changed, then there would have been more development but in Germany's case in particular, the ME's were able to evolve to fit the need and the production facilities were already in place.  There are considerable differences between the 109E-4 and the 109K-4 (or the 163 or 262).  They aren't even close to the same plane.  A true tribute to Willy Messerschmitt's design genious.
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Offline Humpty

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2008, 08:11:22 AM »
Hmm ... let's see.

Bf 109
Fw 190
Bf 110
Me 210/410
Ju 88C/G
Do 217J/N
Me 163
Me 262
He 219
He 162
Ta 152

Just from the top of my head. I'm sure I've missed some...

I just want say that you've forgotten the fw 160  :D

Offline Humpty

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2008, 08:19:14 AM »
oh i have forgot some :uhoh

All german fighters:

Focke-Wulf Fw 190
Focke-Wulf Ta 152
Heinkel He 162
Messerschmitt Bf 109
Messerschmitt Me 163
Focke-Wulf Fw 187
Focke-Wulf Ta 154
Heinkel He 219 Uhu
Messerschmitt Bf 110
Messerschmitt Me 210
Messerschmitt Me 262
Messerschmitt Me 410

so that are all

Offline Lumpy

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2008, 09:05:58 AM »
Well ... the Fw 187 never saw any service though. ;)
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Offline Saxman

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Re: German fighters......
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2008, 09:58:44 AM »
I think I remember seeing that cited as a PROBLEM that contributed to the demise of the Luftwaffe--relying so heavily on the 109 and 190 airframes: while the Allies would develop something new and purpose-built to suit their purposes, the Germans instead modified an existing airframe, but while they were still good fighters you can only push an airframe design to do so much and that handicaps you.

The Germans had some INCREDIBLE aircraft designs, so that's not to take away from their engineering capability, but for whatever reason the majority of their production, with some exceptions, went into modifying the 109s and 190s to do the same job.
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